If
an organization is legitimate,
you should be free to discuss and ask questions of the leaders.
Here is a Compelling and Exhaustive:
"Handbook of Guidelines and Pertinent Questions to Ask Workers!"
Remember:
Any church which hides its origin with lies, and its beliefs with evasion cannot claim to be “the Truth”.
If the history of the church is no big deal, then why lie about it?
Establishing credibility is the key to influencing the behavior of others. When credibility can’t be gained through the facts, distortion of the truth is necessary. When reality isn’t respectable, then respectability must be created through illusion. What better illusion is there than to present a disinterest in money and sex? That is what William Irvine did….present an illusion.
The easiest person to lie to is someone who wants to believe a lie.
Guard yourself from being swayed by your fear, prejudices or desire for approval.
Only the exceptional person is willing to look at something
he doesn’t want to look at or listen to something he doesn’t want to hear.
Irrational people believe a lie or a set of lies and act upon those lies. The more lies they believe and act upon, the more entrenched in the lies they become. They are so intent upon protecting the lies that they may be unable to think straight or communicate in a truthful, logical manner. They tend to establish different faces and behaviors depending on who they are with and with whom they are speaking. The stress of deception can lead to illness, loneliness, and being cut off from others who don’t understand them. Loneliness creates anger and depression. The lies they believe become more important to them than God or people. Ninety per cent of our decisions are based on emotion or our value system. People are very good at self deception. Look at what God says about lies in the Bible.
Satan is a liar and a murderer….Lies lead to death.
Beware the smile that doesn’t look happy.
Lies are only possible when people are kept in ignorance. Once the truth becomes known, the darkness must flee. David Lieberman, Ph.D. wrote the book titled "Never Be Lied to Again
": How to get the truth in 5 minutes or less in any conversation or situation. Most of the following conversation techniques came from his book. Gary Chapman wrote the book "Anger: Handling a Powerful Emotion in a Healthy Way."
These two books are helpful in dealing with issues faced by everyone.
John MacArthur wrote "The Gospel According to Jesus" which is an excellent rebuttal to a false gospel.
Here are a few suggestions for talking to people who believe a lie or who are propagating lies. There is a progression of thought as the conversation evolves. The progression will contain certain phrases.
You may only want to use one or two of these phrases.
Look through the following information and
highlight the phrases which fit your particular situation or person.
Never reveal what you know too soon.
- Quietly gather as much documentation as possible to see if it is consistent with what you have experienced or suspect.
- Assemble a large pile of information about the history of the workers….Impartial Reporter newspaper articles, testimonies and letters by Irvine and Cooney, pictures, newspaper articles of scandals, books.
- Get a copy of the letter written by Irvine in which he says that he was a Mason for over 50 years.
- Obtain the information which shows that Irvine based his view of ministry on Isaiah 41:15-16; he believed his calling was to destroy Christian churches and Christianity.
- Get the letters showing why Bob Ingram was put out of the ministry and about Truitt Oyler’s doctrines .
- Obtain the pages of Incorporation papers of Alberta and some Christian Convention letterheads from the United States. You can probably download these from Telling the Truth website and from Research Information Service.
- It is quite important to have copies of the several books about the group because these tend to go out of print and are unobtainable later.
Then place them all on the table in front of a worker or one professing person at a time. Never do this with more than one person at a time because they are forced to put on an act to be an example to the other professing person or worker. This will most certainly destroy your ability to enable them to actually think for themselves. The exception to this would be if a married couple has already indicated to you that they have questions.
The friends and workers judge everyone by outward appearances, so dress and wear your hair in such a way so as to not skew their attitude against you; if this is at all possible. All of our prejudices, beliefs, attitudes and opinions can filter out truthful information. We need to suspend these things in order to see things as they are. Wishful thinking or a desire to make things simple or easy to understand can skew a person’s view of reality. Watch yourself while discussing a controversial topic, in order to stay as objective as possible. Wishful thinking, a desire for approval or for an argument to prove oneself right rather than listening to the important information can distract a person from truthful, rational thinking.
- You will most likely be talking to your own family members or close friends whom you care about, so choose your words honestly and accordingly.
- Don’t be manipulative, sarcastic or angry.
- Treat others as you would want to be treated.
- Be calm and quietly assertive.
- Say things just once.
- Be careful of the other person’s ego because people think with their egos.
- You might say something like, “I want you to know how much I appreciate you.
- Nothing that you say will make me want to push you out of my life and I hope that you feel the same way about me.”
Watch yourself in case the other person becomes angry. Don’t allow yourself to become angry, too. Keep your voice quiet and soft and your emotion kind. If you do become angry don’t allow him to accuse your anger of being the problem instead of the real doctrinal problems. Remember a gentle answer turns away wrath but a harsh word stirs up anger. You want him to stay open to what you are telling him. If you make him angry, he may stop listening.
You could say, “Don’t worry and don’t be angry. I am not angry at you. I believe we all have been confused by a few things and all I want to do is figure out what I believe, who I believe and what I am going to do.”
“The most important things at this point are what the headworkers teach about Who God is and what is the exact definition of the Gospel. I am not discussing which church to attend or where church is conducted. I am concerned that I have not been snookered into idolatry and a false gospel.
For your information, I know what I believe about Who God is and what the true gospel is, so I am not asking because I don’t know. I am asking because it has come to my attention that I don’t believe that the workers know.”
- “Do you believe you are saved by faith in the atoning work of the Blood of Jesus Christ or are you saved by trusting the workers and the lifestyle of meetings?”
- “Do you consider yourself to be sinless? Do you think that the workers are sinless? Do you consider the workers to be prophets or apostles; the mouthpiece of God? Then why would you believe everything they say without investigating it and its source?”
- “What is your definition of God?
- Who do you think Jesus is?
- What about the Holy Spirit?
Did you realize that John 14:16-17 and many other verses tell us that the Holy Spirit is eternal, that He is God the Creator, the One who is with us forever after we place our faith in Jesus? You cannot lose the Holy Spirit if you really have Him. So it is impossible to ‘lose out’. The workers do not know the Holy Spirit or respect Who He is.”
If he becomes angry, say very softly, “Wait a minute. Why are you yelling at me? Are you angry with me or are you just frustrated?”
Very quietly and kindly, “Why are you talking like that to me? Or, “Why are you talking as if I had no right to ask important questions that impact my life now and for all eternity?”
Or if you do become angry you can say, “Yes, I am angry. I have good reasons to be angry. It isn’t wrong to be angry. It’s wrong to take revenge. We are supposed to confront people who have offended us, not just pretend that it didn’t happen. I am angry because I was lied to, or my children have rebelled against the Lord because of the workers’ rules or turned away from faith in God because of lack of Bible teaching” or whatever else may have been an issue for you ….. Make sure he knows it isn’t personally directed at him and that the issues are the workers’ decisions, ignorance, or lack of teaching.
- “The Bible says to be angry and to sin not. God is also angry about many things…Some day God will take care of the things that make Him angry. I am going to let Him take care of those things. I am not looking for revenge. I am taking responsibility for what I believe instead of handing over that responsibility to someone else.”
- “I want you to know that even though I feel that I was deceived and my life irrevocably changed as a result of the workers’ system, I don’t hold any hard feelings towards you or anyone else. I believe everyone has been harmed by William Irvine’s ideas. I want to help people, not hold grudges towards anyone. It is God’s job to judge people not mine.”
- “I know that most workers are totally committed to their desire to bring people into fellowship with them and are teaching other people what they believe to be true. I am not being critical of any specific person, and especially, I am not critical of you. If I were, I wouldn’t even be speaking to you about this. But I have been thinking for quite awhile about some concerns of mine…….”
- “You are not responsible for what other people have done. We have all believed what we were told. But now I know more than I used to know. Now I am responsible to make a decision based on what I know to be true. I am responsible to reach out and tell the truth to people I know and love.”
- “I am trying to help you understand these things so you can understand me….or so I can help you. I want you to know the joy and freedom I have in a relationship with Jesus. I want to share some Christian information with you. I want to obey God by sharing the true gospel with you. Were you aware of any of this information?
People process information better when it is clearly explained in a simple manner. Don’t overwhelm the person with too many arguments. Pick the ones that are the most important to you and focus on them. Take a highlighter and go through this essay and pick out which statements reflect the points you want to make.
There are several main arguments used by the workers to justify their beliefs:
(1.) They claim it is the “revelation” of the 2x2 ministry that is only necessary to know instead of Bible knowledge, sound doctrine, information or theology.
(2.) They say it is Christ’s life that saves you, not His death. They claim He was just a man who became divine because he submitted totally to God as a minister and a sacrifice. They claim that He showed us the Way to become divine. In other words, he was a Shower of the Way, not the Way.
(3.) They think the gospel story is the 2x2 ministry and meetings in the home instead of John 3:16 and Romans 1:16-17. Galatians 1:6-8 says ‘If we or an angel from heaven preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned.’
(4.) They think God isn’t interested in our natural lives that He is only interested in our spiritual lives; inferring that it is all about which preachers we believe and where we meet for fellowship.
(5.) They believe that people must “die” in order to have eternal life. And the workers then define what it means to die….one must follow them. But, Romans 6:8-14 tells us that Christ did the dying for us, so that we could live….the dying we do is repentance to sin, to immoral behavior….not following the artificial and changing rules that the workers give people. Christ died and when we believe in Him, his death is ours and his righteousness is ours and his resurrection is ours. Moreover, we must be ready and willing to really die, physically, if our lives are threatened for being believers in Christ. Christ told his followers that they would die because those who hate Him will hate His followers as well. It didn’t mean every Christian would die, of course, but every Christian should be prepared to die if necessary.
(6.) Professing people claim to have tried every other church and this is the ONLY one that satisfies their needs. Therefore, you are expected to believe the workers because of what other people have done and because of the churches they tried. Don’t believe this ploy. There are many wonderful godly Christians and Christian churches all over the world.
(7.) They think the 2x2 system existed prior to Irvine, that Christians lived in caves for hundreds of years, hiding from everyone, keeping their beliefs hidden, keeping their meetings in the home hidden, keeping their Bibles hidden, keeping their hymns hidden, keeping their doctrine hidden. That does not show a willingness to die for their faith. Hiding shows that they are ashamed of their faith.
So be prepared ahead of time in your mind how to respond to which of these views he may throw at you. One of the biggest hooks for some people is status in the group. If the person has status, it is almost impossible to get him to listen to what you have to say. Leave the person with status until last on your list to talk to.
There are two main ways commonly used to expose false teachers.
- (1.) Show how the false teachers have lied about their beliefs and/or harmed people.
- (2.) Show how the false teachers have misrepresented and twisted scripture to change its meaning.
It is important to show both because so many people are devoted to the false teaching that it has become truth to them, no matter how you explain one of them. God’s Word is more powerful than anything but many people are blind and deaf to it and actually don’t trust it or trust God either because they have experienced so much pain at the false use of it.
Sometimes you will find that a person who has already acknowledged dissatisfaction with the 2x2 system will turn around and totally deny everything that he once admitted to you just the previous day or previous moment. Or he may say, “Oh, that isn’t what the workers believe at all.” And he will go into denial of everything that you know to be absolutely true. People who have been depressed to the point of considering suicide have turned around and declared that they were totally satisfied, filled with joy, peace and happiness because they are conditioned to be good examples of faith in their way. You must be mentally prepared for denial. Be ready to confront this. This is why it is important to have a copy of typical worker quotations which people know and hear on a regular basis so that you can show him a few quotations and the names of the workers who said them.
This strange ability to deny reality is hard to confront.
Be prepared for it.
If necessary write down on a piece of paper the exact words the person said
and then what he later said in total denial of his former words.
Point out that this is unacceptable behavior.
You must be ready and able to walk away from the group. If the other person senses weakness in you or your understanding of the issues he will walk all over you. You are only as strong as your convictions or your alternatives. If the other person senses that you don’t know what your next move is, he will mock you and your decision. So go into the conversation fully armed with information and a plan for the future. It comes down to who has the most power in the conversation. One way to increase your power is to demonstrate that the truth is obtained somewhere other than in the workers….in other words you don’t need the workers to be saved.
The 2x2 system is a parasitic relationship.
The workers need the friends to supply all their material needs and security. The head worker needs the other workers to act as his money and power base. The workers believe that professing people need the workers for their spiritual lives.
Once you realize that you don’t need the workers
for salvation you are able to confidently leave them.
If you want to influence a person’s behavior attach pain in the direction you don’t want him to move and pleasure in the direction you want him to move. If he is not being truthful or rational, don’t shout, “You are a no-good liar, get out of my life!” Don’t accuse anyone of any wickedness or crime because he will tell everyone you are bitter or crazy. If he is a worker he can turn your own parents, spouse, children and friends against you. The person or worker would like to get out of the conversation, he doesn’t want to stick around and listen to your question. Offer him good incentive for being truthful with himself and with you. Tell him,
- “I know that once you think about these things and do some research that you will be much happier and free of worry and stress.” “I know that once you truly know WHO Jesus is, and what He has done for you that you will find peace and true joy.
- “I know that you would want me to tell you about this if you understood how important it is to your whole life and eternity.”
- “I don’t blame you for being upset. What a person is trusting is at the heart of his whole value system. I just want you to identify what you are trusting. Are you trusting the workers or trusting God and His Word?”
Chapter 9 in Gary’ Chapman’s book, Anger, gives wonderful advice on how to handle topics that are normally too hot to handle.
Acknowledge the reality of anger and the importance of allowing people the right to be angy, but agree not to make inappropriate responses. Explosive words and behavior are counterproductive…Seek an explanation before passing judgment and agree to seek a resolution. Affirm your love to one another and after the discussion verbally express your appreciation and release of expectations from one another. Give one another freedom of faith, freedom of communication and freedom from bondage.
- “I feel that you might think that I am angry at someone and I am afraid that you are going to get angry at me for being honest with you. How do you feel?”
- “Let’s agree to have this conversation and postpone or set aside our personal prejudices or attitudes and just think about these things logically.”
- “Let’s be friends by probing into one’s another’s true feelings and beliefs. Let’s give each other the freedom to think and choose.”
- “”Let’s see if the Holy Spirit can help us with this conversation. Do you mind if I pray for a minute before we talk?”
- “Let’s agree not to judge one another, okay? We are just having a loving conversation about God’s Word and His Son.”
Keep your body language and your statements consistent. If you are passionate about your convictions, then your body language should be strong and confident. Stand straight, look him in the eye.
Watch his eyes and body language for signs of nervousness. Is he looking at you while you are talking and while he is answering? When someone is uncomfortable he tends to look away from you and to use fewer arm and hand movements. He may slouch, moving away from you, avoiding eye contact. Move in closer to him, look him in the eyes, force the eye contact by putting your hand on his shoulder if you feel comfortable doing so. Touch indicates connection, affection and proves that we know and believe what we are saying. A person who is lying often keeps his legs and arms close to his body, arms and legs may be crossed. Sometimes a liar will touch his face with his hands or even try to cover his mouth while speaking. Touching the nose could be a sign of deception or scratching the side of one’s head. Touching one’s face reveals the subconscious thought, ‘I really don’t want to be listening to this.’
If the other person senses weakness in you he will take advantage of it. Be sure you keep your voice calm, low key and quiet. If you are afraid that the stress will show in your voice, try practicing what you intend to say. These suggested phrases are simply starting points. You may think of many better things to say which are more applicable to what you have experienced or learned.
Shrugging one’s shoulders is a gesture that indicates ignorance or indifference. Someone who displays indifference to an important topic should not be trusted. Someone who uses humor or sarcasm to sidestep the question is probably trying to hide something. He may try to intimidate you for asking questions; implying that you have no faith.
- He may say something like “What?! You mean you don’t know the answer to that? You must not have ever had any revelation.” Or, “Education and information aren’t important. All you need is a revelation.” “You don’t have the right spirit.” “You never have had the ‘goods’ to begin with.”
- Your reply could be, “Yes, God has revealed to me that I should never trust anyone’s words if they do not agree with scripture and if anyone refuses to answer simple questions about his beliefs and activities I will not believe him.”
- He may attack you by saying, “Oh, you must have been looking at the internet! Don’t you know that all that stuff is a bunch of lies?! All that stuff is poison written by bitter people.”
- Your reply could be, “Yes, I have looked at the internet. (Or no, if you haven’t) I am fully capable of figuring out for myself whether something is a lie or not. All I have to do is compare it with scripture and to what I already have learned from the workers and my own family and experience…. How about you? Don’t you have the courage of your own convictions? Are you afraid of reality and truth? If you have the truth you should be confident in what you know and believe. You shouldn’t be afraid to examine information. You should be able to point out with verifiable truth why something is untrue. Why don’t you look at the internet? If you believe it is all lies then you ought to be able to prove why it is all lies. What do you have to lose? I find it interesting that so many workers claim that all this information is lies and yet they don’t have one word to explain why they are lies. In fact the headworkers have told them not to say anything that they can’t prove. And they can’t prove what you are telling me. They haven’t said those things. You are confused about the real issues because you have never known any better.”
- “I have noticed that the workers never post anything on the internet because they know their position is false. The only ones trying to defend the workers’ system are people who are not being honest and they are not well informed about the workers’ beliefs. They make claims that actually refute what the workers say in meetings.”
Or you could say, “The reason the workers don’t want people to look at the internet is because they know the scandals that have been reported. If people knew what was really going on, they would not support the workers anymore.”
Or, “I have had my doubts about the workers beliefs for several years. The internet only confirmed what I suspected.”
“Maybe it doesn’t matter to you who started this belief, but it matters to me. If I am expected to believe something, I have to know everything about it. I wouldn’t sign a contract I hadn’t read or couldn’t understand. Why would I trust my mind and soul to people who won’t give me good answers to my questions.”
“Winston Churchill said,
‘Men stumble over the truth from time to time,
but most people pick themselves up
and hurry off as if nothing has happened.’
I stumbled onto the real truth and I am sticking with it.”
“The Bible says ‘Come now, let us reason together’. So, let’s just reason together, okay? What do you think is wrong with the Catholic hierarchy, with the titles of Priest and Pope? Isn’t it wrong to think of men taking the place of Jesus as a mediator between God and man? There is no difference from the position that the workers claim to have. It doesn’t matter what they are called, if they are placing themselves as gatekeepers to Jesus or the Father, it is the same thing.”
The workers must at all costs keep professing people and other workers ignorant of scriptures.
If anyone realizes that the Bible disagrees with their pet theories they have to shut them up quick or push them out of the group before they alert anyone else. This is the reason they warn people against trying to understand scripture with the condemnation of knowledge and the demand that people must have a “revelation.” ‘Revelation versus Bible knowledge’ is their gatekeeper statement to keep people from understanding scripture. Bible knowledge and revelation must be compatible; they aren’t contradictory to one another.
This point above all others must be made immediately if you are going to make any headway at all. The Bible must be your point of reference for truth rather than the workers. Workers and professing people have been conditioned to mock or sneer at people who study the Bible, calling them the “wise and prudent”. Yet scripture declares over and over the importance of studying and memorizing and knowing and applying the scripture. One cannot apply what one does not know.
If you want to do some thorough theological study on your own, check out this Theology Program. It is a great way to discover the real truth about Christian history, theology, inspiration of scripture, doctrines and discrepancies between different denominations. The purpose of the course is to teach Christians to be able to understand and defend their faith in a peaceful and kindly manner. It also teaches Christians what other people believe in order that you might understand their views and answer their important questions and dispel their fears or anger.
- If someone criticizes you for studying the Bible you might say,
- “Could you please explain in detail why you think it is wrong to study the Bible?”
- “If you don’t believe it is imperative to study and know all about the Bible, why do you give your testimony from it?”
Matthew 22:29, “Jesus said, you are in error because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God.”
Proverbs 19:2 says “It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, or to be hasty and miss the way.” Scripture tells us we must KNOW the Word of God or we will miss the way.
2 Timothy 3:14-17 says “Continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of because you know and have known the Holy Scriptures which are able to make you wise for salvation.”
- “I have decided to rely on the Bible. You can rely on the workers if you want, but their message contradicts the Bible…You must choose which is most trustworthy.”
- “I can see why you say that but in light of……I think you need to rethink your statement.”
- “I have heard the workers say that people don’t need to understand the Bible, they just need a revelation and I know what they are referring to, but what kind of revelation do you think people must have?” (The workers believe that the revelation you need is that they are the Way to Heaven and that you must attend meetings in the home.) The Bible says that the revelation that people must receive is that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, God come to earth in the flesh. Jesus would ask people, “Who do you say that I am?” Genesis 1:1-3,27 Matthew 16:13-17; 22:45; John 1:1-5; 5:17-18; 6:46,57; 7:28-29; 8:5859; 10:30-35;14:9-28; Acts2:36; Hebrews 1:8-16; Colossians 1:15-20; Revelation 1:8 The Father and the Holy Spirit reveal the identity of His Son. The workers say that the revelation people must receive is that they are the only true ministry; they think they are “Jesus Christ come again in the flesh.”
- “You and I both know that ideas have consequences. The idea that Jesus is not God but just a good man whom we must imitate in order to have salvation is not Christian; it is a non Christian view. That is what the Mormons and JWs say also.…..The consequences of that idea leads to burn out…..no one can be like Jesus. It leads to death because it means we must depend on our ability to be like Him. That is why our salvation is by faith, not by our ability. We must trust in the death and sacrifice of Jesus, not in someone’s ability to copy Him, whether it is the workers or our own ability. William Irvine chose few and very superficial characteristics to copy. But it would make no difference….no amount of imitation can save anyone. Christ’s righteousness cannot be imitated, it can only be given to us by God through faith.”
He may try to deny what you know is fact or he may even be ignorant of the facts, so if he refuses to acknowledge what you are telling him, you could say, “Well, I can see that you need to do some homework. What you are saying is contrary to everything I have heard my family and other workers say. I know and have confirmed that…..” And make sure you have done your homework. Have quotations and documentation on hand and know what the Bible says.
He may say, “Oh, I’m not smart enough to understand all that doctrine stuff. That is just for the workers to worry about.”
You could say, “You don’t have to be smart to understand doctrine or scripture. All you have to do is care about truth. The Bible says that you must study the Bible. The Holy Spirit gives wisdom to those who ask. Scripture contains all the words of God that we need for salvation, for trusting and for obeying Him. 2 Timothy 3:15; James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:23. Scripture has practical application for our daily lives. God intends for us to obey Him in natural life. When we don’t obey him in our natural life and decisions, it is sin. He has natural work for us to do to glorify Him: sharing the gospel with others, loving our enemies and our neighbors, being generous to the poor, laying up treasure in heaven. He expects us to be morally pure and to repent of sin. Scripture is sufficient for salvation. We don’t need extra words or extra explanation from the workers in order to be saved. If anyone claims you must obey further instructions than scripture, such as following the workers’ teaching about meeting in homes or unmarried 2x2 workers who need to live in your house, or unwritten laws about appearance, that is a false gospel. If workers tell us not to do the things God’s Word tells us to do, then they are leading us astray. When workers become sexually immoral, they need to repent. They have excluded themselves from teaching others about God.”
He may say, “Oh, I have looked into other religions and they are all false. Go ahead, go to another church. You will be back. They are all false!”
Workers have conditioned professing people to be “either-or thinkers”.
Either you agree with them or you are wrong.
Children raised in the group tend to assume that if a worker didn’t say it,
it isn’t in the Bible and it is wrong.
You will only overcome this conditioning by shocking them into listening to you. This is why you need historical on paper documentation and why you must have scriptural references handy for each possible argument.
“I don’t like confrontation… I don’t like this kind of discussion any better than you do. The sooner we get through this, the happier we both will be…. So, let’s just be honest with each other and agree not to play games of denial, lie to each other or act ignorant of these problems. You have admitted to me that…..so I want to tell you why things are the way they are. I am not asking you anything…..I am here to tell you something….”
- “Whose side are you on? Are you going to defend scripture or are you going to defend the workers?”
- “Don’t you think that God is angry when people try to take away the honor that only He deserves?”
- “Denial is just a lie pretending to be ignorant. Don’t play that game. I don’t like it and God isn’t fooled.”
- “Would you trust a car salesman who offered to give you a free car? Nothing comes free in this life. The workers are not telling you the real story. Remember any time someone tells you a story without details, you better look deeper.”
- “When I professed at age 12, I professed because I believe in Jesus and the Bible. I trusted the workers because my parents and grandparents trusted them. Now I still believe in Jesus and the Bible, but I don’t trust the workers. I have learned things that my grandparents didn’t know or understand. What the workers say is not scriptural and it isn’t logical. I am the kind of person who needs everyone and everything to be open for examination. I need to be able to ask questions and to learn more about the Bible as I get older. That was not happening with the workers. They don’t allow it. What about you? Are you willing to live a lie? Do you think it is okay with God to love a lie?
- “How many times have you read the Bible completely through from the front to the back? How much of it do you understand? Well, I have been studying it very hard ever since I noticed how little the workers actually teach it. If I am going to know and obey what it says, I have to study it for myself. If people do not do what the scriptures tell them to do they become deceived and their faith becomes dead. Read James 1:22 and James 2:14-17. Speaking a few words in meeting is not what being a Christian is about. We have to do things every day to be a fruitful, growing Christian. Being a Christian is more than going to meetings in a home and obeying worker rules.”
- “Is there anything that you wish you had known when you were younger that would have made a difference in the choices you made?”
- “Whether you want to tell the truth or not tell the truth is entirely up to you. But I just want you to know where I stand on these issues.”
The workers claim to be without organization, yet that is not true, it is just hidden.
They claim to have no money and that is not true, either.
They just don’t let anyone know how much or where it is.
It is thought that they are asexual but that is not true.
They claim to be an unincorporated business but that is not true either.
They claim to have no names but they have several names under which they are listed and many more which have been given to them.
The workers do not pay into the tax base of the country where they live, but they receive social security when they are old.
Obtain as much documentation as possible.
The workers want everyone to think that the people who leave meetings are either bitter or crazy.
You must prove to him that you are neither.
A person taken off guard may agree with you and act interested in all that you have to say, but when you leave, he will most probably go into denial and blank out everything you told him and may turn against you. Be sure to leave all your information with him so he can look at it and think about it. Tell him not to show the information to anyone until he has had time to look at it or the workers will take it away and destroy it.
You might say, “Well, I haven’t gone looking for another church, yet, but I know enough to know that my criteria is not going to be based on the workers’ criteria. It isn’t the location of the church or its structure or what the people look like or whether the preacher lives in a house. I am going to look at the doctrines and their statement of faith to see if they match scripture. I am going to look at how they treat one another. I will look at how they evangelize and how they interact with society. I want to know how they lay up treasure in heaven and whether they communicate openly and honestly. I am going to look at the way they handle church discipline and whether they teach all of the Bible instead of just focusing on certain narrow topics. I am going to make sure that people are allowed to think for themselves and be able to ask questions and get answers. I am going to look at their elderly people and see if they understand the Bible and apply it to their daily decisions.”
- Or you could say, “Humor me. I consider you an honest person. We have known each other for a long time. I have trusted you and spent years trusting the workers. You owe me the courtesy of answering me.”
- Or you could say, “Luke 12:5 says to fear Him who has power to kill and to cast into hell. I fear God, not the workers.”
- Or you could ask, “Who do you say Jesus is? Do you think that Jesus and Christ are two different beings like some workers have believed? Do you think that you or the headworker is Jesus Christ come again in the flesh?”
- “When you professed, what were you professing to believe? When I professed, I was professing to believe in and follow Christ, not the workers. It has come to my attention that if you don’t trust the workers you are not welcome in the meetings. The condition for fellowship is accepting the decision of the Elders of the Ministry as just and final, and encouraging others to do the same. How can anyone accept the decisions of the overseer if he doesn’t even tell us what the decisions are?”
- “I know some people profess just in order to please their parents or the workers, not because they understood what the workers were teaching. Which one was it for you?”
- “When you give your testimony, how much time and effort go into what you say? Do you have to reject most of what you read just in order to speak on something? Why is that?”
- “Well, I don’t know what I am going to do yet, but I do know that I am better off trusting in Jesus Christ and scripture than trusting in men who twist His Words.”
Well, I am taking one step at a time, and right now I am doing something I should have done before. I am looking for real answers to important questions. And I am not going to stop looking until I get to the bottom of this. I only believe in God and His Word, not in men.”
- “I am not saved by a church or the workers or any particular church or ministry, I am saved by my faith in Jesus Christ and in His Blood sacrifice.”
- “My reason for leaving the meetings is purely doctrinal, not personal and I am not angry or bitter against anyone. But I will tell you, I am going to tell other people the truth. I am not going to pretend that it is okay for the workers to deceive people.”
Or maybe you have already figured out what church you are going to attend and you can tell him what and where it is and why you have found it helpful.
Workers rarely stick to the same story
and often forget what they said the last time they talked.
So watch for different answers. Each worker seems to have a different answer for these questions, as well. The reason for this is because they are not taught any consistent information of any kind. Their theory is that the Spirit leads them to truth without need for Bible study. In reality, this doesn’t happen. Point these out….”You know I have heard about 5 or 6 different versions which all contradict each other.
Which story do YOU believe?”
People who are hiding something may become flushed with anger or pale with anxiety. Look for signs of rapid breathing or perspiration. Watch for his nervousness to subside as soon as the subject is changed. He will become happier and more relaxed. You might say, “I can see that my questions are bothering you. Is that because you haven’t ever asked anyone these questions before and you don’t know the answers or is it because you have been warned against answering these questions?”
- “Don’t worry. I am not recording this conversation and I am not going to tell the head worker what you say to me.”
The person may start crying or shouting when you ask him these questions, so be prepared for an emotional outburst. It could be that he has been wrestling with these doubts himself and is overcome with the enormity of the reality of the implications of scripture. He may start talking and talking and not give you any chance to say a thing. If you notice that the person is becoming defensive or too uncomfortable, you can lighten the mood with a funny remark or change the subject for a few moments. To be funny, you could say, “Let’s save time and assume I know everything.” Or, “you know everything.” Ask if he would like a glass of water or a cookie, just to give him some space. If you need to --- just end the conversation if you can see that he has lost the ability to understand what you are saying. “Okay, I see I can’t get you to logically listen to what I am saying, so let’s just let it go at that.”
If, or when you resume the conversation, he will become tense or quiet, or remember that he has an appointment in five minutes.
A person who is hiding something may not usually become indignant if accused of lying because he has mentally prepared something to say. He will have a one or two sentence reply boldly delivered in the hopes that he can squelch anymore questions. Someone who is telling the truth would more likely become angry at being accused of being dishonest. However, this can go either way….some liars will take the angry offensive in order to frighten timid people. Don’t be intimidated. That is one way the workers have ruled people for over 100 years, intimidation. Ask for specific details for their bold faced lies.
You might say, “This reminds me of the theory of evolution….a statement given as a fact, with no explanation of any details about this supposed fact. If you think that this group has existed throughout history, you need to come up with specific proof, names of people, details of doctrine, examples of hymns prior to the Hymns Old and New, sermons, places where they had convention or meetings. If you are going to base your whole life on something you need more information than you have been given.….”
Watch for the statements, “To tell you the truth….” “To be perfectly honest…..” “Why would I lie to you?” “This is the honest truth!” “Why are you arguing with the Truth?” The workers have named their lie “the Truth” in order to cover their deception. Anyone who questions their false doctrines are made to feel that they are rejecting truth. In reality, the workers are the ones who oppose truth. These statements about “the Truth” are subconscious efforts to make one believe something that may not be true. If they use the word “Truth” as a synonym for their church, point it out to them. “With all due respect, have you ever noticed how you are using the word “Truth”? If we are talking about Truth, I want you to define what that word means to you. Truth is not the church, Truth is God’s Word and His Son. I object to your use of the term as a synonym for the workers.”
Watch for the stall of asking you to repeat the question, or the stall of answering your question with another question that isn’t important. If he does that, then tell him, that you asked your question first…..when he answers yours, you will answer his.
He uses an obvious fact to support a dubious action, such as: “William Irvine went bad and started his own following so he was put out of the work. But we aren’t following William Irvine. We are obeying Jesus!”
Or he plays word games to cover an important fact, “Irvine wasn’t a founder, he was a finder.” If he says that, then tell him, “Well, I don’t like and don’t agree with what Irvine found.
He expresses his displeasure at the actions of someone else in an effort to make you think that he is shocked by it, yet in the next breath he minimizes its importance. He may say, “Yes, William Irvine was put out because he was a problem with women or had an ego problem but it doesn’t matter who started it. History doesn’t matter. Genealogy doesn’t matter” or “I know that so and so was accused of molesting children, but that isn’t a problem that you need to worry about. God takes care of those kinds of things. We just have to work harder to see that we don’t fail.”
Nearly every worker and professing person will immediately tell you that sexual immorality exists in other churches, and therefore, no one can blame the workers. However, in other churches when the immorality is discovered, the sin is acknowledged, the person is usually censured and put out of fellowship as Paul admonished the Corinthians to do with the incestuous person. But in the meetings, the workers and friends will hide the sin, lie for the sinner, take sides with the sinner and do everything they can to keep it from coming to light. They have even interfered with the legal system in order to protect workers and people who are child molesters. When it finally becomes public knowledge, then they act as if it is totally shocking, unknown to them and as if it is the only time such a thing ever occurred. Don’t believe them. The internet has story after story of such things and there are hundreds more that have been reported to those of us who have been collecting one hundred years of information.
If your friend minimizes the workers’ rules, sermon statements or beliefs acting as if they aren’t really important and says,: “I know that the overseer thinks those rules are important but I don’t agree with those rules and I never have agreed with them.” “Well, I don’t believe that, I believe…….” Tell him, “It doesn’t matter what you believe. There are probably lots of people who don’t believe those things and yet they act like they do. It is wrong to act like you believe something that you don’t. I am only interested in discussing the policy and the doctrines of the headworkers because those are the things that people are expected to believe and uphold.”
“You know something? It just dawned on me recently that this whole system is based on our trust in the workers, not on our faith in God….And you know something else? I don’t trust the workers anymore. They have lied about too many things and have refused to tell us the truth about everything I asked them.”
Next Phrase: When he says something that sounds implausible, something you know to be untrue or very odd stare at him continually while he talks. LISTEN to him talk and talk. Don’t interrupt. When he is finished, say,
- “Really!? “You have got to be kidding!”
- “Okay, now I have heard (or maybe haven’t heard) that explanation before but I am being totally vulnerable with you. I have sincere doubts about the truth of what is going on. What about you? Don’t you ever have any questions about what you experienced or seen?”
- “And you meant…….?”
- “Because?…..”
- “Meaning………..?”
- “And…………?”
- “So……………?”
- “Now…………… how does this apply to me or to what I have asked you?”
- “Well, I don’t think that reply was a real answer. Could you rephrase that?”
- “What would have to happen in order for you to begin to look for more answers from the Bible?”
- “Could you be more specific?”
- “When I was young I heard a worker tell my parents that he thought that less than half of people who are professing would be saved. Have you ever heard workers talk about that? He said that you could tell a person’s salvation by his attitude towards the workers. I didn’t know what he was talking about until I saw Tharold Sylvester’s note on conditions for fellowship. I think you ought to ask a worker about that condition. Why don’t the workers tell people about that condition and about those odds more often? This is very important if you are trusting them for salvation.”
- “Proverbs 14:15 says, ‘A simple man believes anything but a prudent man gives thoughts to his steps.’ I am not going to believe what anyone tells me anymore unless I can see it verified in scripture.”
- ‘What would you do if a worker molested your child or seduced your wife or came on to you?”
- “Have you ever heard workers contradict each other’s statements at convention? Well, I have. Many times.”
- “I have heard workers contradict themselves in the same message. How can two opposing statements both be right?”
- “Did you ever notice that there are three ways that people are influenced by the workers? In meetings, privately in the home and children are trained to do or believe things through their parents. The workers tell the parents how to deal with the children. There are lots of people who don’t know the core beliefs and rules because they never heard them. The workers don’t always tell everyone what the group really believes. How did you learn what the workers believe or do you know what they believe?”
- “The workers used to mock Christian churches for being incorporated and yet the workers are incorporated. They say it is because the government requires it. Why would they mock other churches for something if the government requires it? The workers have a double standard and they are not telling you the whole story.”
Next phrase: Ask, “Is there anything you want to get off your chest?”
If the person is a worker you might ask, “Do you have any freedom of thought or freedom of movement?” “Can you go anywhere without your companion? Can your companion go places without you?” Have you ever censored your companion’s mail or had your companion look through your belongings?”
- “How much time is actually spent on preparing a message? Where do you get the information for your messages? Can you talk about any topic or are some topics forbidden? I have noticed that most messages center around 3 main things: Workers, meetings, and submission.”
- “Does your companion share his money with you?” “Are you included in important conversations or do you ever get the feeling that the older workers are hiding things from the younger workers and the friends?” “Do you have any money in your pocket or in a savings account? Do you know of any workers who do?”
- “What happens to a head worker’s money when he dies?”
- “Do you know what money laundering is? It is a very serious crime which the government will punish. The workers need to be very careful about how they handle the money they have.”
- “When a convention ground is owned by the workers who pays the taxes on it? I have heard that the workers have an incorporation for their property. What do you know about that?” Show him the Canadian Incorporation papers.
- “Have you ever had any offensive companion or a companion who told lies or caused problems for you or other people?” “Have you ever heard of workers trying to molest or seduce his companion?”
- “I guess you aren’t allowed to talk to people about these things are you? I know you would tell me the truth if you could.”
- “Is ______ weird or what? I can’t believe some of the stories I have heard about him. What do you know about the recent….”
- “You know, it is amazing to me that you have never asked me what I think or what I know about this topic. I know a lot more than you do. I could talk to you for hours and tell you things you need to know and you have never asked me once what I know. Are you afraid to know this information? I think you are because you know it would force you to make a decision you are afraid to make. Well, God will hold you are responsible for what you are pretending not to know. He will not accept ignorance as an excuse when it comes to faith in Jesus Christ and trusting the true gospel.”
- “I am looking for someone who understands the importance of …..I was hoping you would be able to explain this. Not because I need to know but because I want to think that you who are someone who really cares about God’s Word.”
- “You know, I told people that you would be too afraid to talk about this but they said you would be more than willing for an open discussion.”
- “I am just letting you know that lots of people are concerned about this.”
- “Have you heard of people being put out of meetings just for retaining friendships with people who know too much about the workers, their activities, doctrines and their history?”
- “Do you ever want to vent to someone and tell them what you think? What DO you think?”
- “You are a smart person. Let me ask you a question. What is your most carefully thought out definition of sin and repentance? And what do you think takes care of that? Do you know what the words ‘Imputed righteousness’ means?”
- “Let me get your opinion on something.”
- “Let’s work together on this. I want to see how we can help other people or avoid problems like this in the future.”
- “You do what you have to do, that is fine with me.”
- “You can say what you want, or think what you want. And so can I.”
- “If you were the headworker, what would you do differently?”
- “I know you don’t want to offend me, and I don’t want to offend you. But this subject isn’t about offending anyone. The workers tell everyone to be a good example to other people. This isn’t about being a good example of believing the workers. This is about being a good example about not lying. I am not lying to you. I want you to understand me and my concerns for you.
- “Charles, I am coming to you for one reason only. I know that you will tell me the truth. I know I can count on you, or at least I thought I could.”
- “The workers say that people are not saved by Christ’s death, but by His life in them. What do you say? Are you trusting in Christ’s life, or the workers’ lives or by trusting in His Blood sacrifice for you?”
- “The scripture warns against people who love a lie. I want to know why the workers have lied about their doctrines and history. I don’t love lies. They lead to death.”
- “Well, since you can’t tell me the answer, then I will tell you the answer…..”
- “The workers have always emphasized that they are without purse, but I have seen a large ostentatious movement in the homes at some of the convention grounds. How much of that is worker money invested in those homes?” What is the difference between money belonging to the workers being used for fancy homes or invested in a church which other people can use?” “What is the difference in building a big fancy shed or building on convention grounds which can only be used once a year and building a church building that can be used year round?”
- “I have known of and heard stories of workers involved in adultery, homosexuality and child molestation. There are even newspaper accounts, it has been on the television news and it is on the internet. It seems to me that the whole set up for the ministry is not morally safe, because there are no points for accountability and the workers are moved from one community or state to another when they need to disappear.”
- “What would you do if you found out your companion was doing something immoral? Who would stop the problem? Head workers have usually covered up the problems they know about and move people to another area. The head workers have actually protected the guilty parties and made it difficult for the law to gather information. Do you think that is a good idea for anyone?
- “I am sorry if the historical facts conflict with your opinion. I will stick with the recorded facts and with scripture.”
- “Don’t you think the workers keep their meetings a little too hidden from the community? If the workers really believe that this church is the only way to heaven, don’t you think it ought to be a little more visible? The Bible says the Light should not be hidden under a bushel.”
- “Don’t you think it is odd that there are more workers in rural areas than in highly populated areas? Look at the workers’ lists. And isn’t it odd that there are more sister workers than brother workers? Why do you think that is?”
- “I have noticed that workers start out with a premise and then look for one or two verses to back up the premise rather than reading scripture and teaching from the whole point of a book. Would you explain to me your perspective of the whole book of Galatians?” What would be your summary of Galatians? And what about Romans, especially Romans 14 and 15?
- “I know all about …….and the…..and what happened in……. It makes me very distressed and I want you to explain to me what you or I or someone else can do about it.”
- “You are the only person I feel comfortable talking to because so many people clam up, get angry or refuse to talk about scripture.”
- “I hope this doesn’t upset you. Let me know if you are afraid to discuss this. What could happen to you if you tell me the truth about these issues?””
- “I hope this doesn’t offend you. I don’t hold you responsible for what other people have said and done. The reason I am talking to you is because I trust you and believe you care about good morality and sound doctrine.”
- “Do you have a good memory? Do you remember hearing the workers say that this Way was started by Jesus on the shores of Galilee, not any man ….? Well, I do, very definitely remember it. I also remember much more about what was expected of people 40 years ago that no one even mentions any more. How can that be, in a Way that supposedly never changes?”
In order to change the conversation or direct it….you might say, “Along those lines……”
Next Phrase: Don’t accuse ---- allude. Talk about the past or another person.
Frame the question so that it sounds perfectly innocent to an innocent person but like an accusation to the guilty. For example…..Ask “Did you know that William Irvine was a Freemason for over 50 years?”
“Did you know that Granges and Oddfellows, Eagles, Ku Klux Klan, Moose and Woodmen of the World are all Masonic Orders?” These are all occultic organizations. There are over 30 Masonry ideas and beliefs that the workers believe. Would you like to know how they differ from the Bible?” “I know that the workers have always claimed that they use those organizations’ buildings because they are cheap, but they are occultic societies. I can’t see how godly people would ever want to hold meetings in such places, no matter how cheap they are. I believe it shows a link between the Masons and the workers, because William Irvine was a Mason. I can remember as a child sitting in those halls and feeling very creepy. I used to wonder if we were a Grange church.”
If he is purposely lying he will say, “Why do you ask? Or where did you hear that? Which indicates he is concerned that information will spread. If he has nothing to hide, he won’t mind answering or he will become as concerned as you are. If he doesn’t want to know how they differ from the Bible, it shows that he doesn’t care what the Bible teaches.
- “Did you know that William Irvine had a history of sexual immorality before and after he started preaching?” “Don’t you think it is harmful that the workers are moved from place to place if they molest children or have affairs with women? What do you think should be done about a worker who is sexually immoral?”
- “It is against the law for people to protect the identities of pedophiles.”
- “I appreciate what you have done. You are more approachable than the other workers I have met. Do you often feel lonely? What would happen to a worker who asked too many questions of the overseer? There don’t seem to be any checks and balances in the workers’ lives or among the friends.
- “Did you know that Eddie Cooney was put out of the 2x2 system because he remained loyal to William Irvine and would defend him, contact him and talk about him?”
- “Have you ever seen the conditions for fellowship with the workers? I have a copy of it. It says the conditions for fellowship is “accepting the decision of the Elders of the Ministry as just and final, and encouraging others to do the same.” When I professed, I didn’t profess to accept the decisions of the elders of the ministry. I professed to believe in the Blood of Jesus to atone for my sins. How about you?”
Next Phrase. “I have a problem or a question I need help with.”
- “Clarence, there is a question I need help with. Can you help me or give me a solution? ..... The Bible, Hebrews 1:8 and John 1:1-8 and elsewhere clearly says that Jesus is God come in the flesh and that is why the Pharisees killed Jesus….They knew he was claiming to be God, they accused Him of blasphemy. But the workers I have talked to said that Jesus is NOT God. Do you worship Jesus? Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is God? Do you believe that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as the baptismal statement says I baptize you in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit…..that the three have one Name, Jahweh, LORD?
The workers have often called this Truitt Oyler’s doctrine. They refuse to call it by its correct name because they don’t want anyone to know what it is: The Doctrine of the Trinity. Why are they trying to hide what they believe about the identity of God? Why do they attack Truitt Oyler or the Catholics rather than name the doctrine and deal with the scriptural information in an honest fashion?
- “It doesn’t matter who believes it or what you call the doctrine, but it does matter who you say God is.”
- “Are you saying that people are saved by a method rather than by believing what the Bible says about Jesus?”
- “Let’s think this through together…..Do you ever feel that you have to suppress your own personality or talents or interests in order to please the workers? Boy, I sure do. I have never felt free to be myself.”
- “Do you ever feel that your thoughts continually are about what the workers and friends think about you?”
- “How strong is your confidence in your own wisdom or Biblical understanding? Do you have to have a worker tell you what you are supposed to believe about certain verses or can you understand them without the workers?”
- “It’s amazing isn’t it? Isn’t it amazing how someone can lie to you when you know and he knows he is lying?” “Isn’t it amazing that someone would claim to preach the Truth but refuse to give important information to people who ask what they teach? Christian pastors teach people about the Bible and about what they believe. Christians will die for what they believe. The workers don’t teach the Bible or what they believe. Only two things are important: the workers and the meetings in the home. Everything else is irrelevant.”
- “I know and you know how the workers avoid telling people what they believe about God’s identity. How can you look at yourself in the mirror every day and pretend that this isn’t important? Idolatry (worship of the wrong god) is a deadly sin!”
- “The workers say that they don’t want to get married but I know there have been workers who have wanted to marry and the head worker would not let them.”
- “Have you ever heard of the term ‘church discipline’? A man by the name of Ken Sande wrote a book titled Peacemaker. It talks about what scripture says about church discipline. I think it is strange that the workers don’t have any way of dealing with sins in the congregation or among the workers. What do you think about scriptural discipline? Are you aware that all the problems that the friends and workers have are being swept under the rug?”
- “We have wasted too much of our lives on a lie. How many hours of your life have you spent driving to meetings, sitting in meeting, talking to workers and you still don’t understand the Bible? How many days have the workers wasted your time in meeting saying the same old things? How much money have you spent on gas traveling to meetings? How many people have you led to faith in Jesus Christ? Have you ever thought about how much time the workers waste doing nothing? We need to get on with really serving the Lord and lay up treasure in Heaven.”
- “Do you really understand the Old Testament covenants and instructions from God? Do you realize that from the book of Genesis, God had predicted that the Saviour would come to pay for our sins? The workers have reversed what Jesus did and now claim that man must pay for their own sins by following the example of Jesus. They say he is the Way shower instead of the Way.”
- “There are over 1000 prophecies in the Bible and about 500 of them have already come to pass. Are you aware of the prophecies that are yet to be fulfilled? Don’t you think it brings glory to God to talk about these prophecies? Why don’t the workers ever talk about them if they are such experts on the Word of God?”
Did you know that approximately 25 to 27% of the Bible is prophetic? Why don’t the workers give God the glory for the accuracy of the Bible and fulfillment of God’s predictions? Why don’t the workers ever give God much glory for His creation? Why don’t they talk about God’s character and attributes and praise Him for them?
- “Doesn’t it bother you that the workers don’t care or do anything about the widows and orphans, the poor and the needy of this world? And especially, why don’t they do something for the poor professing people in other countries. I have heard the workers’ rationalization on that topic and frankly it disgusts me.”
- “Doesn’t it bother you that the workers don’t have any outreach to people who have special needs?”
- Doesn’t it bother you that the workers rarely reach anybody except the children of professing people?” There is nothing happening in meetings. There is no fruit to show for the workers’ efforts.”
- “Doesn’t it bother you that the workers don’t teach people anything about the topic of abortion? Did you know that some professing women and girls have had abortions?”
Next Phrase: “Is there a reason?”
- “Is there a reason that the workers don’t stay in their field for much more than six months out of a year? Why do they have to attend so many conventions, and special meetings speaking to people who already are professing? Why don’t they spend more time preaching among people who have never heard their message?
- “Is there a reason why the workers are so unavailable or unable to help families who are in crisis? One family was having problems with a rebellious teenager and they asked a sister worker what to do. She told them that their daughter just needed to see them praying on their knees. She instructed the father to call the daughter to the bedroom on a pretense while the mom was on her knees praying by the bed. She wasn’t depending on the power of God to help the family, she was trying to manipulate the girl. Frankly, that was just lame. It didn’t help any of them and it made the sister worker look silly. ”
- “I have heard and have seen that most of the workers don’t have the authority to make decisions….they have to ask the headworker. Do you know if there is a reason for this?”……. And then just wait for him to talk. If he doesn’t say anything, Say, “That is odd. The Holy Spirit is supposed to be in control, not the headworker. Don’t you object to that?” Lock eyes with him until he says something.
The things that are missing in an untruthful story are the details. Fallacious stories don’t include negative details, historical proof, doctrinal information or important personal information. The liar will be emphatic and the story will be short…..or it may be hours long but the same things will be said over and over in one hundred different ways. And when he is done, you won’t know any more than you knew before he began talking. And he still won’t have given you any documentation.
Explain some events that you may have observed and ask,
- “Were you aware of any of these situations or information? Can you think of any good reasons that the workers decided to do this?” “If you were the headworker, would you have handled the situation in the same way? I just recently found out that the main reason that people are shunned or pushed out of meetings is if they disagreed with the overseer. When I professed I was under the assumption that my faith was in God, not in the workers.”
- ”Well, I am just letting you know, because I know that eventually someone else will ask you these questions and you will need to be prepared to answer them.”
Next Phrase: “Let’s Give it a Try.”
- “Let’s give it a try because if it doesn’t answer our questions, we can always change our minds…”
- “Let’s try to understand one another, okay? You listen to me….I will listen to you. It is a good thing to talk about God and our faith in Him. Scripture says that God listens when people talk about Him. I totally believe in Jesus and His Word. There is no question about that. The only questions I have are about trusting the workers.”
- “I hope you don’t think I am asking these questions because I am not willing for the unwritten rules. I am asking these questions because I want to understand God’s Word and I want YOU to understand exactly Who you think God is and I want to know the overseer’s definition of God. The wrong God is idolatry. And I want to know exactly the overseer’s definition of “the Gospel” and “the Way.” A false gospel brings a curse on those who believe it, Galatians 1:8. So please give me your definition of God and your definition of the gospel.”
- “Try to put yourself in the shoes of a parent raising children, watching them grow up without any Bible training or understanding. Try to understand how it feels to watch your kids become immoral, addicted to something, angry or out of control. The workers don’t reach the mind of kids. None of their messages or testimonies teach children what they need to know biblically speaking, especially in how to relate to people or get along in the world. Adults and children are not given any Biblical advice for the most important decisions of their lives.”
- “I was talking to …… the other day and the subject of …..was brought up. Neither of us knew the answer to it. Can you settle the matter for us?”
- “Have you ever heard of the term ‘Control Freak”? A Control Freak is someone who tries to think for other people and talk and direct the actions of everyone around him. He does this because it makes him feel safe. Well, I don’t feel safe when I am around Control Freaks. How about you? I believe God will hold me accountable for what I do, not for what someone else tells me to do. I am not trying to control you, I am trying to communicate to you how I feel and what I think about the most important issues of our lives.”
- “I want to give my full attention to what you are going to tell me, so I want you to let me get this one problem out of the way first……I have noticed….”
Ephesians 4:23-24 says And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.” Scripture constantly tells us that we must fill our minds with the knowledge of God and His Word in order to be transformed into His image. It is wrong and wicked for people to ignore the teaching of scriptures.
- “I hope this doesn’t offend you but…”
- “I know that the best defense is a strong offense and I believe that is why some of the workers are so offensive…. They are trying to protect themselves and their lifestyle… But they are hurting the very people who are following them.”
- “I have wondered about what seems to be a hidden problem of racism among some of the workers and friends. I know that there are black and Hispanic friends and workers, but why don’t we ever see them? Where are they? They don’t seem to be allowed to mix with others.” The workers have a quick and dishonest answer to this question….get in touch with "Telling the Truth" for the real story.
- “I was reading the Bible this week and I came to ……and it made me think about…..and I was wondering ….. Can you explain it in your words for me? Is that what the overseer would also say?”
I heard about a scandal involving the workers or the elders in Alaska, Minnesota, Michigan, Kansas, Australia, or wherever else …….. I was told that it wasn’t supposed to be talked about. Can you explain why? How do you feel about that? Do you think that the friends and workers should be kept ignorant of what happens in the church? The Bible says to confess your sins to one another, to repent, to confront the sinner or to pray for the sinner.”
- “The word ‘offend or offense’ can be applied to something as simple as an insult or to something as heinous as sodomizing a baby or raping a child or seducing an adult. People who have been sexually abused are sort of like burn victims. They suffer for their entire lives and no amount of counseling or crying can fix their pain and confusion. It affects them forever! Their souls and emotions are continually hurting. What do the overseers think should be done to help these offenses?”
- “What would you do if you knew of a worker, an elder or parent who was guilty of such a thing? Are you aware that many workers have never said anything to anyone about those kinds of offenses that they knew had happened because they were afraid of being shunned or because they thought it wasn’t their business?” Don’t you think this fits into the definition of a hireling who flees when the wolf appears?”
- “Scripture says that sin is to be exposed and dealt with in order for people to repent. How can it be dealt with if no one knows about it or talks about it?”
- “In the professional world ‘business intelligence means turning data in actionable (workable) information’. In the Christian world scriptural intelligence means turning God’s Word into daily application to normal living. God expects us to understand scripture in order to obey it. The workers prevent people from doing that and actually tell them not to do what the Bible says to do. The workers warn people against becoming involved in charitable activities and they don’t allow or teach them to evangelize others. The workers don’t want people to do anything except attend meetings.”
- “I am sure you are wishing that this conversation was not happening. And I feel like you don’t want to tell me the truth at all. Maybe you think that I am going to be angry with you. I don’t hold you responsible for what other people do or say. You aren’t responsible for what they do, but you are responsible for what you teach. Make sure that you are teaching what the Bible says, not just the same old lines and allegories passed down from old workers.”
Next phrase: “I am shocked.”
- “I was shocked when it dawned on me that the workers don’t preach against sin and the need for repentance. They just preach about the workers and why they are the true ministry and that the meetings are the only Way to God, rather than faith in Jesus Christ and His shed blood. Their version of repentance is for people to stop believing the Christian faith and stop going to Christian churches and believe in the workers and obey the workers for the rest of their lives.”
- “I was shocked when I learned that the workers don’t believe that people can know whether they are saved or not because they believe they can lose their salvation at any moment. This is why they constantly demand that people come to every meeting. They believe that being at meeting and believing the workers saves you.”
- “I disagree with how husbands and wives have to put the workers and meetings before one another and when I see how children are ignored by their parents in favor of the workers and meetings. How do you feel about that?”….. Putting God first isn’t the same thing as putting the workers first. The workers are not God.
- “I was hurt and shocked when I realized that the workers have been lying to me and my family for five generations. I know my grandparents must have known about William Irvine but they never bothered to tell me about him. The workers always said that this way came from the shores of Galilee, not Ireland. My grandparents were very isolated people who didn’t have much knowledge of the Bible, so they were very easily persuaded to believe the workers who came to them. If they knew what I know, I am sure they would not have continued coming to meetings.”
- “I am puzzled when I see that every professing person actually has different beliefs about God and salvation…..the only thing that matters to them is that they attend every meeting and follow the outward rules when they are with the friends. That can’t be what unity is about. Uniformity in lifestyle and appearance is not unity in doctrine.”
I am hurt because I tried to talk to …… and he refused to answer my questions. Have you ever gotten good answers to your questions?”
- “When I professed, I was professing to believe in Jesus, not in the workers. Now I realize that this is not what is expected. We are expected to believe in the workers in order to believe in Jesus. I simply cannot be a part of such a belief system.”
I am hurt because I thought you loved me…..and cared about my eternal life….why would you lie to me about something that would lead me to disaster and hell?
- “I think we both know what I am talking about. We need to clear the air by being honest and rational about this. There is no point in trying to ignore an elephant in the middle of the living room. That is simply dysfunctional, dishonest behavior.”
- “I was shocked to hear that several well trusted workers have been pedophiles their entire lives and the headworkers just moved them around the world, endangering the lives of hundreds of children. One just recently left the work at age 75….and his activities had been known for most of his life as a worker. He wasn’t put out of the work, he left it.”
- “I am waiting to get an answer from the overseer (or whomever) and the longer I wait, the madder I get.”
- “I really want to hear your side of the story first before I make a decision.”
- “I know there are two sides to every story and I want to hear your story. Just how did your family become involved with the workers?”
- “I have had difficulties getting definite information from anyone, I have been counting on you to explain things.”
- “The friends are all talking and thinking about these things. Jesus didn’t do this to people. Jesus explained things openly. This dishonesty has got to stop.”
- “Have you ever considered suicide or wished you could die? I know that many workers and professing people have felt that way….They see life as misery to be endured instead of a blessing. This is not the kind of life the Bible portrays for believers. It should be full of joy.”
Conversation Stoppers: If the person becomes angry and you can see that the conversation needs to end you could end with a zinger to make him think.
- “Would you mind telling me what I said or did to offend you?”
- “Why would you believe something that isn’t true or pretend to believe it?”
- “I am sorry. I guess we have come to the conclusion that we will have to agree to disagree. But, that doesn’t mean that we have to be enemies, does it?”
- “I am sorry but I can’t take the stress of pretending to believe something that I clearly know to be wrong. I will be praying for you that God will open your eyes to the truth of scripture and to be able to acknowledge that the workers are not teaching or obeying scripture.”
- “I am sorry that my decision to leave meetings has created a rift in our relationship. I have d