Worker Jeremy Gibson – Manhattan, Montana #1 – June 23, 2006
In 1 Corinthians 2, I won't read the verses but particularly from verses 11 down, it tells us that we know the ways of men, of humans, by the spirit of man in us. Also, we might call it the human nature in us. That we know the ways of men and that we can only know the ways of God by having the Spirit of God. And if we have the Spirit of God, we'll think different than if we just have the spirit of man.
There is much difference between God and man. We know there is a difference between men an women. Men don't exactly understand how women think, and vise versa. But that is a small difference compared to the difference between the thinking of man and the thinking of God. And it is the Spirit of God that helps us understand the mysteries of heaven. Like even the purpose and the existence of hell, the Spirit of God teaches us that. Many people in the world want to think that that is just a scare tactic or there is nothing to hell, but the Spirit of God teaches us why there is a hell. And it teaches us why Jesus had to die for us.
To many people, that is a mystery that seems foolish. But the Spirit of God teaches us those things.
God wants us to know the way He thinks about things. He wants us to know His judgment. And if we are confused about how God thinks, it is because of our unwillingness to accept. Either to search and ask God why or just unwillingness to accept His answers.
I was in confusion for a couple years about whether I was supposed to be in 'the work,' just because of my unwillingness.
People came to Jesus and asked Him, “How long will you hold us in doubt or in suspense? Tell us plainly.” Jesus had been telling them but they just didn't want the answer. So they were confused. God wants us to understand the way He thinks. When we come to know God and have a relationship with God, He wants to teach us His ways.
So, I was thinking of some ways that we think differently, if we have the Spirit of God, we think differently than those in the world. I had a companion, my second year in the work. He was 80 years old. And many times, he would express his lack of understanding of why people did things the way they did. Why they made the choices that they did. And me, I wasn't very far removed from the spirit of man, my second year in the work, though not very far.
And I could understand why they made those choices. But my older companion, it was becoming hard to understand why people would make those choices. And it would be nice as we continue on, and God's way becomes more a part of us, that you would come to understand less the workings of man, the workings of our human nature.
And briefly, one way we think differently than the world, is that we believe that all that Jesus did and said was the best. It still is the best. And maybe the biggest case in point would be Jesus' example of how people ought to preach the Gospel.
How He sent out the apostles, and how He Himself lived and preached as an example of a minister of God. And we believe that Jesus did it the best way possible, that He taught the best way possible.
But not many people in the world pay any attention to how Jesus established the ministry. They think it has been improved on, that they can improve on that.
And we also believe that the record we have of the believers in the New Testament, that it's the same. That they were basically mature, as mature as we are, can be today. What we read of in the Acts. Of the way that the friends met together in those first thirty or sixty years after Jesus left. That they had as much understanding of God as we have today.
The same Spirit was teaching them. And it can't be improved on. We believe that moving the fellowship meetings from homes into buildings is a regression, not a progression.
And we aren't interested in the, necessarily, in the quantity of those that walk with us in this way. But we are interested in the quality of Spirit of our meetings, of individuals. And we don't believe that there is any benefit in ignoring any commandments of Jesus so that there could be more members in our way. Because if we did ignore anything of Jesus, then that is what it would be. It would be “our way.” But Jesus selected the perfect way. God has a perfect plan. And we want to follow all the teaching of Jesus.
One thing that we don't want to differ from is what Jesus taught, for example, that Jesus taught that people ought to give their aims, their acts of righteousness, in secret. And people in the world, they found that people will give more if they make a public plea for help and if they have some sort of competition involved among people. They ask people to give publicly in front of other people, that the people would give more. And then, the whole idea behind that, or the justification for that, is that is all that is given, if the preacher can get somebody to give more, then that can be used in spreading the gospel and more people can come to know Christ.
But that is their idea. But that is ignoring the teachings of Jesus. We don't believe there is any benefit in that. But then, it would become “our way,” not God's way.
And we believe that the way is narrow.
Others believe that the way is wide.
We pray differently than those in the world.
They pray that God would be with them in their activities.
We pray that God would direct us throughout the day. And that God would be with us as we do His will.
And they pray for world peace and we pray that people would be troubled until they would come to submit or surrender to God, especially those that we love the most. We pray that they would be troubled and be moved to turn to God.
And they pray for good weather for their activities for the day.
We pray that we would have a good spirit throughout the day.
They pray for health and for wealth, and we pray that we would be content in whatever conditions God has prepared for us. Stressing that His will is best, and that we would learn and prosper spiritually in whatever condition we are in.
In their prayers, they are bold as teenagers are bold to their parents. Making requests and feeling like they know as well or better than their parents.
But we pray with the boldness of infants, that we cry out shamelessly in need, asking our parents to help us. We don't really know what we need, but we need something and our parents can provide that.
God's people, when they are corrected, they assume that the person correcting them loves them, because that's the way it ought to be. Love must be included with correction and correction must go with love. And so when we are corrected, we feel that the person that is correcting us loves us. We are not offended. And many other things, we think differently, and that is good, because if we have the Spirit of God, we'll think differently than those that just have the spirit of man.
And it is good to be different.
And separation encourages differences. And so when we leave here, we want to try to get to all the meetings we can.
To be separate from the world.
We have to be in the world but we don't have to be of the world.
We want to be separate and not mix in with activities of the world that aren't necessary and that would make us think the way they think and value the things they value.
When our thoughts tend to follow the trend of the world, that's time to get worried.
What is really motivating us?
What is really directing our thought?
Is it the Spirit of God or is it the spirit of man?
- - - COMMENTS - - -
I hate to be disrespectful toward someone who lived a short life. But I can't let this remark go without comment:
“We believe that moving the fellowship meetings from homes into buildings is a regression, not a progression.”
Look at the fancy meeting shed at Manhattan, Montana convention grounds. Is it a house??? 8-11-06
This poor worker is clearly brainwashed. This speech could have been given by any number of workers both past and present.
They all sound ALIKE!
Nothing new.
Nothing about Jesus being the Savior, paying the price.
Nothing about serving “HIM.”
Instead, “We want to get to all the meetings we can..............and be separate from the world.”
HELLO....wake up people!!! Jesus IS coming again. Will you be prepared to meet “HIM?” 8-11-06
1-26-10
Oh dear...
Where do you begin with this?
As Ronlehman says....what a MESS!!!
When I was a child growing up in the Way I had real difficulty in sorting out what exactly was meant by 'We want to be separate and not mix in with the activities of this world'.
You see, some 'activities' seemed to be OK and others weren't.
You could drive a car BUT you had to rip the radio out.
You could become a nurse or a secretary BUT you couldn't become a thinking academic.
You could study Shakespeare at school BUT you couldn't act in school plays. (I defied my mother on that one and went ahead and did it anyway, which led her to warn me that she was most displeased with me and I shouldn't be participating in this 'worldly' activity at all)
You could learn to play the piano - even classical music - BUT you couldn't have a record player to listen to the best performers of classical music.
In fact, when my father actually bought a little portable one, in order to listen to his secret passion, Scottish pipe band music, in an attempt to retain his Highland identity in the alien north of England, my worker uncle who was visiting at the time said "Errrr...is THAT allowed??" Well... if HE didn't know for sure if it was 'allowed' or not, then who on earth did? He was the Head Worker responsible for the whole of Scotland at the time!!!
I felt I had to make little lists for myself of what was and what wasn't 'allowed'. These lists got longer and longer and more and more complicated as I grew up. On re-reading the teenage diary I made (while suffering from severe headaches because of my tightly plaited hair which was pulled back from my face so firmly that I still have two little bald patches high up on each side of my forehead where my very fine hair never grew in again) I found one entry which pleads: "I must get my mother to let me have a pony tail!".
Much of this stems, as Gray has already pointed out, from the late 19th century origins of this Way. The clothes, the hairstyles, the suppression of women's talents, the attitude towards children who 'must be seen and not heard' ...it's all there. The desire is to fix the minds and apppearance of the faithful at that moment in time like a fly trapped in amber and never allow change.
But when we get into the justifying 'theology' behind this....now here is where it becomes really sinister.
Jeremy Gibson starts off quite promisingly..."And it teaches us why Jesus had to die for us."
But then, instead of elaborating on that absolutely crucial statement, he just goes on to say "And maybe the biggest case in point would be Jesus' example of how people ought to preach the Gospel. How He sent out the apostles, and how He Himself lived and preached as an example of a minister of God."
Oh dear....what a mess!!!...and I won't even try to argue the 'buildings not made by hands' issue because I'm sure you all already know what I feel about that one....
Bless bless,
Eilidh
Jeremy Gibson
I just want to say that I knew Jeremy Gibson . WHile I was in the USN in San Diego, I spent many days and nites at the Gibson home... I remember holding Jeremy upside down as a little 6 yr old kid... I have never met any finer folk than Joe and Linda Gibson... They were fairly new in the "way" as was I. I was baptized with them as well...
I was in the "way" for 20 yrs... have been out for 15...
all I can say is WHAT A MESS !!!!!
I have had to unlearn some false teachings... My faith is in Jesus, and the redemptive work that he did on the cross...thru grace... It seems that the "way" is trying to add another condition in order to be saved... which reminds me of Gal chapter 3... like I said , what a mess it is...
I do believe that many of the "laws" of that 2x2 way protects a person from the evils of worldliness.... but a person can remain unspotted from the world w/o being in their church body as well... I fully believe that unless we forsake all, we can't be His disciple... I interpret that as fully surrendering ones will to God.. If He isn't Lord of ALL, then He is no Lord at all...
What about the unread Scripture?
The Worker failed to read the text – perhaps it would have helped the Worker to read the text because the text does NOT agree with the Worker’s ideas at all.
First of all, in the Worker’s sermon, the continuity is far too detailed to be an average person’s notes of that sermon. It could be a transcript from short hand, or a transcript of a recording. It is not likely a self-written document, since Workers do not normally write “Spirit of God,” but rather write “spirit of God.” And if this assessment is accurate, then the document contains ‘editing’ that comes from the transcriber. Seconding this probability, the Worker’s wording, “And it teaches…,” referring to the Spirit of God doing the teaching, clearly illustrates that to this Worker the “spirit of God” is an “it,” not a “He.” In the text the Worker failed to read appears, “the Spirit who is from God.” On top of that evidence, the text clearly states, “For the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.” Since when does an “it” search anything, much less “all things?” A “who” is not an “it.” In fact the Bible identifies the Spirit of God as “God.”
So, that caveat stated, the text the Worker failed to read clearly states, “…no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.” Yet the Worker completely contradicts the text of Scripture that he cited. But contradicting Scripture is nothing new to 2x2ism, it is more like a general practice within 2x2ism. Have a look for yourself and see if you can find the word "teaches" (as in the Spirit of God teaching men how God thinks)in any of the Bible text the Worker cited.
(Net Bible)
1 Cor. 2:6 Now we do speak wisdom among the mature,5 but not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are perishing. 2:7 Instead we speak the wisdom of God, hidden in a mystery, that God determined before the ages for our glory. 2:8 None of the rulers of this age understood it. If they had known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 2:9 But just as it is written, “Things that no eye has seen, or ear heard, or mind imagined,6 are the things God has prepared for those who love him.”7 2:10 God has revealed these to us by the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 2:11 For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So too, no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 2:12 Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things that are freely given to us by God. 2:13 And we speak about these things, not with words taught us by human wisdom, but with those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.8 2:14 The unbeliever9 does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 2:15 The one who is spiritual discerns10 all things, yet he himself is understood11 by no one. 2:16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to advise him?12 But we have the mind of Christ.
Translator’s Notes
5tn In extrabiblical literature this word was applied to an initiate of a mystery religion (BDAG 995 s.v. τέλειος 3, gives numerous examples and states this was a technical term of the mystery religions). It could here refer to those who believed Paul’s message, the mystery of God (v. 1), and so be translated as “those who believe God’s message.”
6tn Grk “entered the heart,” an OT expression, in which the heart functions like the mind.
7sn A quotation from Isa 64:4.
8tn Or “combining spiritual things with spiritual words” (i.e., words the Spirit gives, as just described).
9tn Grk “natural person.” Cf. BDAG 1100 s.v. ψυχικός a, “an unspiritual pers., one who merely functions bodily, without being touched by the Spirit of God.”
10tn Or “evaluates.”
11tn Or “is evaluated” (i.e., “is subject to evaluation”); Grk “he himself is discerned,” that is, the person without the Spirit does not understand the person with the Spirit, particularly in relation to the life of faith.
12sn A quotation from Isa 40:13.
Oh the pain of it all
1. First off, if this Worker grew up in the 2x2 fellowship, he would have NO knowledge of how or what any other group prays – so all his suggestions would be merely imagined speculations made specifically to show ‘how different’ (and elite) 2x2s are from everyone else. His claims of ‘difference’ are nothing more than ignorant ad-hominem – i.e., logical fallacy.
2. “We believe the way is narrow. Others believe the way is wide.”
Oh, I didn’t know that because the Christian churches I have attended all believe that the “way” and/or “the truth” is singly the person of Jesus Christ ALONE – now if that is not ‘narrow,’ even much more ‘narrow’ than the Workers’ “way,” I should be very interested in the Workers’ definition for the word “narrow.” And outside of those churches, few I have met even think there is a “way” at all because they have had the ‘science’ of evolution forced down their throats in public schools to the degree that they do not believe that God exists at all.
3. “We pray differently than those in the world. They pray that God would be with them in their activities.”
Why would Christians, who believe that God indwells each one of them at all times, pray for God to be with them? Perhaps this Worker thinks God leaves believers each morning ‘to go to work somewhere else’ – “Good morning Wilson.” “Oh, good morning God, where you working today?” “Well, I thought I’d just pop on over to Jake’s church building, that was build without hands, where Jeremy Gibson’s eating and sleeping for free, just to be with him for a few minutes. He’s been literally pestering me day after day, praying for me to be with him in making everyone that I love suffer, and I do love Jeremy, so I think that I’ll just give Jeremy everyone else’ portion of suffering and give joy to the rest of you. Maybe Jeremy will notice that a good Father knows who to give good gifts to. Oh, and Wilson, please don’t eat so many donuts at coffee time. I am already sweet enough from your breakfast, ok?” (GRIN)
“We pray that God would direct us throughout the day. And that God would be with us as we do His will.”
It is good to see that Jeremy prays that God would be with him – it is obvious from this sermon that God was not with him while he is preaching this one.
4. “And they pray for world peace and we pray that people would be troubled until they would come to submit or surrender to God, especially those that we love the most. We pray that they would be troubled and be moved to turn to God.”
Typical of the 2x2 idea that each person must copy Jesus’, as in footprint by footprint, including all Jesus’ suffering, in order to become ‘worthy’ of God’s favor, this Worker documents the commonality of miserable 2x2 prayers for all OTHER people. Marvelous!! Thank God that He does not seem to be listening to those miserable 2x2 prayers when He instead BLESSES Christians with great JOY regardless of their situations. But then, it is likely that this Worker has never attended a Christian Sunday service to see the joy Christians express there frequently. And by keeping himself isolated from ‘the woooorld’ by going only to 2x2 homes one after the other, this Worker would not have to set eyes upon that daily joy shown in Christian lives outside of church services either.
I don’t think more comments regarding this Worker’s sermon are necessary because his sermon, just as has already been pointed out in above comments, could be dated as far back as the 2x2 beginning in 1897 – and it could be attributed to almost ANY 2x2 Worker between 1897 and 2010. It is the same old same old mere Workers’ “way,” not even with a new clean shirt and pants put on it in 110 years. (to readers of VOT, please pinch your nose if you don’t like the smell of it -- grin)