How the Two-By-Twos Differ From
Orthodox Christian Beliefs
in what they do NOT believe . . . .
They do NOT believe in the Triune God
They do NOT believe in the deity of Jesus; that Jesus is God the Son.
They do NOT believe in the deity of the Holy Spirit; that the Holy Spirit is God the Spirit.
They do NOT believe the Holy Spirit permanently indwells every believer.
They do NOT believe in the finished work of Christ.
They do NOT believe that Jesus came to be our substitute in His life and death.
They do NOT believe that man is born in sin.
They do NOT believe in eternal security.
They do NOT believe in the priesthood of all believers.
They do NOT believe conversion can take place through the written Word without human agency.
They do NOT believe one can know they are saved in this lifetime.
They do NOT believe salvation can be attained without going through their ministers (the workers).
They do NOT believe in total reliance upon Jesus' shed blood for salvation.
They do NOT believe that salvation is an unconditionally free gift of God.
They do NOT believe salvation solely by grace through faith in Jesus, not of works. (Eph 2:8,9)
One former member of The Church Without A Name wrote:
"In all my years with this group I never heard the message of the Cross preached. I never heard how Christ died in my place and how that through one man, Adam, sin entered into the world and man was separated from God. I never heard how that through one man, Jesus Christ, man was reconciled to God through the shedding of His blood on the Cross. They do not point people to the Cross but to them. They preach that Christ died only for them in their group, for those who follow ‘the workers’, and not for the whole world."
"The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe" Prov. 29:25
How the Two-By-Twos Differ From Orthodox Christian Beliefs in What they DO believe . . .
REGARDING THEIR FELLOWSHIP:
They believe that their fellowship is a direct historical continuation of the New Testament church.
They believe that their fellowship is "from the beginning."
They believe that their fellowship is God's ONLY true way; therefore, all other church members, preachers, churches and religions are "false."
REGARDING SALVATION:
They believe that salvation comes by grace AND works (self-effort).
They believe that salvation is earned or merited through faithfulness and righteousness.
They believe that salvation is determined at death.
They believe that salvation is not possible WITHOUT BEING IN THEIR FELLOWSHIP.
They believe that salvation is conditional upon works and that it is not secure.
They believe that sanctification comes BEFORE justification.
REGARDING JESUS:
They believe that Jesus came to be a perfect example; a pattern minister or the way-shower.
They believe that Jesus' life is equal or more important than His death.
They believe that Jesus created a way to Heaven through His death.
They believe that Jesus created a way on earth by his life; which is one and the same as their fellowship.
REGARDING THEIR MINISTERS:
They believe that their ministers (workers) are God's only TRUE ministers.
They believe that one must go through their ministers (mediators) to be saved.
They believe that their ministers are the supreme authorities in Biblical interpretation.
They believe that their ministers have authority and rule over the members.
They believe that their ministers' viewpoints are considered as authoritative as the written Word.
They believe that their ministers' traditions are equal in importance with God's commands.
Ex Members of the sect have said:
Yes, my mother (still in the 2x2's) KNOWS her Bible. But does she REALLY know it? My poor mother would have to completely re-learn the bible to realize what all those verses, that the workers have always taken out of context, really mean. She could leave the 2x2's tomorrow and go into a good bible-teaching church and STILL would misinterpret those verses, simply because the wrong interpretation is all she has ever known. Basically, she would have to re-learn (or learn for the first time!) the basic definitions of things like Salvation, the Trinity, The Blood of Christ...etc.
"I truly believed that the Two-By-Two way was the only truth. I was terrified I would perish so I stayed and believed everthing without question. Then things began to happen that I could no longer ingnore. I felt God leading me out of the darkness and into His marvelous light. How precious our Lord is to me now. I realize that it's not about a religion but rather a relationship. Praise God."
"I'm so enjoying the freedom of letting the Bible speak to me without having to bow to a man's interpretation. He says what He means! I can trust Him!"
They Go About Two By Two
The Workers' Misapplication of "Proof Texts"
The usual starting point in any discussion with these people centers around their favorite doctrine, THE RIGHT WAY TO GO ABOUT PREACHING. The passages they begin with are found in Matthew 10, Mark 6, and Luke 9 (parallel passages relating to Jesus sending out his twelve apostles on the limited commission). They also bring in Luke 10 which relates to Jesus sending out the seventy disciples on a similar mission. From these two preaching missions they emphasize the following points:
(1.) As you go, preach.
(2.) Provide neither gold, silver nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, etc. That is, do not go prepared to rent your own living quarters or to make purchases of food or other necessities.
(3.) Go in pairs, "by two and two."
They then proceed to point out that, according to this teaching, those whom Jesus sent were to seek out, in the cities where they went, those individuals who were "worthy" and then stay with them. By "worthy" is meant those who seemed willing to receive them and listen to their message. They were to live in such homes and have their meals there without being required to pay for room and board. These provisions were considered in harmony with the principle that "the workman is worthy of his meat," (see Matthew 10:5-14).
From these accounts the "Two by Twos" draw the conclusion that this is the ONLY TRUE "Jesus Way" of preaching the Gospel and that all those who fail to follow this pattern are not to be considered true followers of Christ. In order to arrive at this conclusion they have had to regard Jesus’ instructions in these passages as the necessary procedure, to be followed to the letter, for all future generations. With these convictions in view, it is easy to see why they regard the slightest deviations from this procedure to be sufficient evidence that one is a false teacher. Accordingly, this doctrine has become, with them, the standard rule by which they judge all other religious bodies. In their thinking, then, it seems very logical to begin a religious discussion on this point of the CORRECT way of going about preaching.
Let us now examine the "proof texts" of the "Two by Twos," to see whether they apply to the preaching of the Gospel for today. First of all, the twelve apostles were sent by Jesus upon a LIMITED preaching tour in Matthew 10. Verse 5 of that chapter clearly restricts the twelve in these words: "Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans." Thus, the commission under which the "Two by Twos" are laboring did not allow for preaching to ANY GENTILE. At this point the "Two by Twos" violate their own proof text since they certainly preach to Gentiles. Furthermore, Jesus specifically charged the twelve to "go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 10:6). This means they were restricted to preaching ONLY to the Jews.
In the similar commission, given to the seventy disciples in Luke 10:1, Jesus sent them, "two by two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself was about to come." The account in Matthew 10:23 adds, "Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."
From these passages we learn two important facts about this commission: (1) The twelve and the seventy were to preach to JEWS ONLY. (2) They were to preach only to Jews who lived in the IMMMEDIATE VICINITY where Jesus himself intended to visit in the near future. Clearly, this was a PREPARATORY preaching mission. The very restrictions placed upon it by Jesus show that it was never intended to serve as the pattern for all future preaching tours.
The "Two by Twos" DO NOT restrict their preaching to Jews only, nor is their preaching done in the immediate environs of Judea, therefore, they are not fulfilling this commission. The very text they appeal to as proof for their method of preaching being correct, they themselves violate in the following ways: (1) They are preaching to the ones Jesus said NOT to preach to (Gentiles). (2) They are NOT preaching to the ones Jesus said to preach to (they make no concerted effort to reach Jews). (3) They are NOT restricting their preaching to the cities of Israel as Jesus specified.
Secondly, the MESSAGE of this commission was a limited one. Matthew 10:7 and Luke 10:9 clearly state that the message the twelve and the seventy were to preach was that the kingdom of God was "AT HAND" or "IS COME NIGH (near)," Just as John the Baptist had done before them, they preached a PREPARATORY message. Theirs was NOT a message that the kingdom had arrived. They did not preach the message of salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus as they were commissioned to do later on (see Matthew 28:18-20 and the book of Acts). Since the "Two by Twos" do not preach the same message required by Jesus in Matthew 10 and Luke 10, they are violating the very text which they hold up as the basis for their preaching method.
In the third place, the limited commission under which the "Jesus Way" people claim to be laboring carried with it a MINISTY OF MIRACLES. Notice Matthew 10:8: "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleans the lepers." In Mark 6:7 Jesus "gave them authority over the unclean spirits." The same thing is mentioned in Luke 9:1-2; 10:8 and Mark 6:13. When the seventy returned from their preaching tour they testified that "even the demons are subject to us in thy name." (Luke 10:17)
Obviously, the "Two by Twos" can do none of these things nor do they even claim to. They utterly fail in carrying out one of the most prominent features of the commission from which they claim to get their authority. When approached with this glaring discrepancy between what the Bible says and their practice they have explained that the healing, raising the dead, and casting out demons were only meant in a SPRIRITUAL way. They say Jesus commanded the twelve and the seventy only to raise the "dead in sin," to heal those afflicted with the "disease of sin," and to cast out the "devils of sin." It isn’t difficult to see why this cult is forced to such a ridiculous interpretation. They simply cannot duplicate the requirements of a MAJOR feature of the limited commission and yet have the boldness to claim they are the only ones who are really fulfilling it. Thus far, we have seen that the "proof texts" used by the "Two by Twos" actually refute their practice instead of upholding it.
In the fourth place, the "Two by Twos" completely fail to understand the REASON for the twelve and seventy not taking "gold, silver, brass in your purse, no wallet for your journey, neither two coats, nor shoes, nor staff" (Matthew 10:9-10). The context clearly indicates why these disciples were restricted from taking provisions with them. This was to be a HURRIED trip. Jesus himself was soon "about to come" to these very cities in person. It was important for the people in them to be prepared for his coming. Therefore, the twelve and seventy were not to make elaborate preparations for an extended preaching tour since they would not be gone very long. Where people were not receptive at once, they were to move on immediately. When persecuted in a given city they were to "flee into the next" (Matthew 10:23). Because of being in such haste Jesus told them to "salute no man on the way" (Luke 10:4). Salutations in those days were lengthy and elaborate and the nature of their mission did not allow for any waste of precious time. Even with all these instructions for a "whirlwind" preaching tour, Jesus informed them that they would not get through all the cities of Israel before he himself began traveling the same route (Matthew 10:23).
Thus "Jesus Way" preachers totally miss the PURPOSE of this limited commission. This accounts for their mistaken idea that this mission was given as a "model" for all preaching missions throughout the Christian age. Nothing could be farther from a correct understand of the passages under discussion.
Jesus’ clear instructions in Luke 22:35-36 afford additional proof that the "Two by Twos" are in error concerning the matter of not taking money or provisions with them on preaching tours. Prior to his arrest in the garden of Gethsemane, Jesus reminded his apostles that they had not lacked anything when he sent them out without provisions on the limited commission. Then, perhaps with the Great Commission in mind, which would call for a worldwide ministry, Jesus said, "But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet." (Luke 22:36) By this statement Jesus specifically LIFTS the previous restrictions, and plainly commands the taking of provisions on this forthcoming preaching mission to all nations. Therefore, if Jesus’ teaching ever DID prohibit preachers from taking money or clothing with them as they went out to preach (and it did on the limited commission), NOW that prohibition has been lifted and Jesus actually authorized the making of material preparations.
One "Two by Two" member made a feeble attempt to twist the Luke 22:35-36 passage by suggesting that Jesus was really rebuking his apostles for still wanting to take a purse and wallet. He reached the apex of absurdity by saying that Jesus’ quotation of Isaiah 53:12: "He was reckoned with transgressors" had reference to his own disciples rather than the two thieves who were crucified with Jesus. (the apostles were "transgressors" for violating Jesus’ instructions regarding taking provisions!)
In summary, note that there is no continuation of the limited preaching commission of Matthew 10, Mark 6, and Luke 9-10. This mission was SPECIFIC IN ITS SPHERE, DIRECTED, NOT TO THE Gentiles, but to the Jews of Judea only. This mission was also SPECIFIC IN ITS OBJECT, designed to prepare for the coming of Jesus and to announce the nearness of the kingdom. Finally, this mission was SPECIFIC IN ITS CHARACTER, attended by miraculous credentials which verified the preachers as divinely sent.
Therefore, this mission was FULFILLED by those to whom it was given and thus has no application to men preaching the Gospel today.
THE ‘TWO BY TWO’ DOCTRINE REFUTED
An important distinction which the "Two by Twos" fail to make is between the LIMITED COMMISSION (already analyzed) and the GREAT COMMISSION recorded in Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-16 and Luke 24:44-49. This latter preaching mission was considerably different. According to the above passages it was intended to be worldwide and to continue until "the end of the world." It differed in the MESSAGE to be preached (faith in the resurrected Christ, repentance unto the remission of sins through the blood of Jesus, and baptism into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit). It differed in the SCOPE of the preaching (into all the world unto all nations, to every creature). It also differed in several other important features. There were no restrictions in the Great Commission as to taking money or other provisions when going out to preach. Thus, one of the chief features of the "Two by Twos" is not to be found in Jesus’ final commission under which the preaching of the Gospel is to be carried out today.
We now come to another element of Jesus’ limited commission to the twelve and the seventy. This point is one of the strongest emphasized by the "Two by Twos" as they cite their "proof texts." According to Jesus’ specific instructions, under the limited commission, preachers were to go out IN PAIRS, "by two and two." This means that the twelve were sent out in six pairs and the seventy in thirty-five pairs.
This method, the "Two by Twos" insist, is the only true way of going out to preach today. The idea is advanced that, if preachers go about today singly or in trios, this amounts to proof positive that they are of a "false way." Again let it be kept in mind that no such requirements was imposed upon those who were to go into all the world preaching the Gospel to every creature under the Great Commission. Silence on this point, in itself, should be sufficient to show that one of the primary tenets of the "Two by Twos" is based upon a preaching commission which has been SUPERCEDED. The final charge of Christ to evangelize the world does not involve the necessity of going in pairs, therefore that procedure is simply not binding upon us today.
However, the "Two by Twos" are quick to point out that early preachers, in fact, DID go out in pairs following the Great Commission of Matthew 28:18-20. They cite Paul and Barnabas, Paul and Silas, Barnabas and John Mark, and Peter and John as examples. Of course, numerous such instances can be noted in the preaching missions of the apostles and their companions. Indeed, the method of going about in pairs has much to commend it. One person can be of much assistance to the other, through mutual companionship and encouragement, especially in times of physical danger and hardship. Even today personal evangelists find much value in traveling in couples. But this is far different from making "by two and two" the ONLY correct method to traveling on preaching tours and then considering all those who do not follow this procedure to be "false" and "hirelings." Here the "Two by Twos" make something a matter of faith which should only be considered an expedient. In their words, the New Testament makes the number of preachers traveling together at one time of NO consequence whatever. They were to bear the right message (the Gospel) and go to the right people (all creatures) but there was no such thing as a RIGHGT NUMBER (pairs) traveling together in order for them to be considered true followers of Christ.
A careful reading of the book of Acts shows the fallacy of the position that preachers MUST travel "by two and two." Sometimes preachers of the Gospel went out on preaching tours ALONE. Philip went BY HIMSELF to preach to the city of Samaria (Acts 8:5). This is the Philip who is later called "the evangelist" (Acts 21:8). The "Two by Twos" attempt to explain this away by saying that Philip was not SENT OUT but only DRIVEN OUT (of Jerusalem) when he went preaching alone. But Acts 8:26 tells us that an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip and sent him to preach to the eunuch. In Acts 8:39-40 we again find Philip going ALONE into many cities preaching the Gospel and this at the direction of the Holy Spirit. According to the Holy Spirit it was not necessary to have a traveling companion when carrying out the Great Commission.
The Apostle Peter also went ALONE on an extended preaching tour which took him through Lydda and up to Joppa on the west coast of Palestine (Acts 9:32-43). Paul can be found in Damascus preaching Jesus, ALONE, following his conversion (Acts 9:19-22). Because of severe persecution Paul is sent, ALONE, to Tarsus (Acts 9:30) where be probably spent the next several years preaching and establishing churches in Cilicia.
Several years ago Richard Hollerman made a survey of the book of Acts noting the number of persons who traveled together in each reference to an evangelistic journey in that book plus other New Testament passages. The results of that survey indicate that the number who traveled together varied quite widely. The following list enumerates the number of persons with the times this number is mentioned given in parentheses: one person (15); two persons (11); three persons (7); four persons (2); seven persons (1); eight persons (1); two persons plus an unspecified additional number (2); three persons plus an unspecified additional number (2).
Thus we can easily see that the doctrine of the necessity of traveling IN PAIRS was neither believed or practiced by preachers in New Testament times.
Some might think this an odd question. Christians believe Jesus is God the Son. Others may never have heard such a concept. Could it be true? Could Jesus be God?
Christians believe in the TRINITY or the GODHEAD. Three persons or personalities in ONE God: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. Not THREE Gods; just One. Almightly God revealing Himself to us in THREE ways.
What you are about to read is a written dialogue between someone questioning the beliefs of the 2X2 Church and some folks who were in the 2X2 Church for many years."
This is another quote from **** from a post of his dated 1:55 am tuesday july 18, 2000 :
"Christ is the son of God. Christ is the ALMIGHTY GOD! "
It is of no concern to me who said this it just happened to be **** :) and I am not trying to judge his beliefs.
I am just trying to figure out what the 2X2 Church believes about Jesus.
Is this what the majority believe and what is taught? Could I stand up in a Sunday meeting and say "Jesus is the
almighty God!" Just wondering ...
Does a doctrinal statement exist put out by believers in this Church? ( I don't think so but ... )
Tell me what you believe as a 2X2 or what you believed when you were a 2X2 or what you feel is the group's beliefs on this subject. +++++++
I'm willing to bet if you go back through 100 YEARS worth of notes, you'll find precious little on either the Trinity or grace. It was the fact that those two *foundational Christian doctrines* were unknown to us, after 50 years of professing, that was the primary reason we left "The Truth" three years ago. (I say "unknown" - meaning not understood. I had heard vaguely of them through the years, and the little I did hear was usually in a derogatory sense - "worldly/false" doctrines.) Neither I, nor my husband and family, understood their true meaning and significance. IMHO, *very* few of the friends do. Now, I was a copious notetaker, and sat through conventions in many states, as well as several countries - over a nearly 50-year timespan. Since I missed hearing these marvelous, wondrous truths, which **** claims are a part of the 2x2 belief system, I am definitely a dunce! I think we need to keep in mind that there are varying definitions of the word grace. The meaning of it as understood by Christians all over the world is not necessarily the meaning the friends/workers attach to it, when they do use it. Remember I said I just had a vague idea of its meaning? As used by the workers, it seemed to mean some kind of strength, or power, from God. Just recently, that was verified to some friends of ours by an eastern overseer. The definition of grace that he gave was: the power to lead a godly life. That is not the definition given by Cruden's Concordance, which is: the free - and unmerited - mercy of God, or the enjoyment of His favor. Now, Cruden's definition, once I had incorporated it into some of the grace verses in Romans, is what brought me to my knees at the foot of the Cross. A light went on in my head - and heart - and I knew what it was to truly worship Jesus, my Lord and Savior. Understanding the real meaning of grace changed my life. I didn't realize it then, but now I know that at that moment, I was born again. The joy of salvation rang clearly in my heart, my life turned a corner, and nothing has been the same since. Now, I was a diehard "truther." I loved it. I was happy in it. LOVED my role as elder's wife. I did NOT want to leave. It was the hardest decision of all our lives, by far.
Originally, it was finding out about the history that was the catalyst. I was absolutely devastated, because I had complete trust in what those old Irish workers had always told us. But you know, that probably wouldn't have been enough to make me leave. I could have somehow rationalized my way around it, in order to stay in. For me, it was the discovery of God's Amazing Grace and of Who Jesus really is - the Almighty God, as **** wrote - that did it. The longer we continued going to meeting, the clearer it became what is really worshiped there: the WAY, the WORKERS, the SYSTEM - and oh yes, we're thankful for Jesus, too. In time, I actually began to feel that I was betraying Christ by being in meeting. I apologize if that offends some, and it may indeed. It probably would have offended me, some years ago! But that's my own personal experience, and everyone's experience is valid *for them*. Well, I never intended to go on so! I'm sorry - kinda got carried away! Please understand that my love for the friends - and workers - is still very much intact. In fact, it's stronger, if anything. I value your posts, and understand - so well! - your struggles in the system, AND your defense of it. Everyone has to do what is right between your God and you. In the loving grip of grace!
Jeanie Dudley 18 July 2000
Jeanie wrote: "Understanding the real meaning of grace changed my life. I didn't realize it then, but now I know that at that moment, I was born again. The joy of salvation rang clearly in my heart, my life turned a corner, and nothing has been the same since."
Jeanie, as you know your experience mirrors mine exactly!
I have tears in my eyes and a rush of joy in my heart again as I hear you tell of the wondrous amazing grace of our Father. This to me was the unmistakable movement of the Holy Spirit in my life too and I'm full of gratitude to God for you because you were the messenger who brought the message to me!
And what was the most important thing? The MESSAGE. It also changed my life completely, turned my thinking upside down, focused my mind on what God wants to do in me instead of what I can do for him. And brought me JOY I had never known before. Why was that kept from me in the meetings? How can the workers not know grace when it is the pivotal point of the Gospel?
This is so serious to me that I find it hard to listen to **** telling us it doesn't matter that the workers don't understand these things yet. It does matter, it matters more than anything else, and to me it is so serious I could not uphold the doctrinal errors of the Truth because they prevented the grace of God being a reality for me. My eternal welfare was at stake!
Now I truly know I am His child forever. All glory to Him. It was nothing of me.
Love and peace, Elaine 18 July 2000
Elaine, you wrote: "...I'm full of gratitude to God for you because you were the messenger who brought the message to me! And what was the most important thing? The message. It also changed my life completely, turned my thinking upside down, focussed my mind on what God want's to do in me instead of what I can do for him. And brought me JOY I had never known before. Why was that kept from me in the meetings? How can the workers not know grace when it is the pivital point of the Gospel?" Glad you realize it's the MESSAGE, not the messenger, Elaine! : >) (But I do appreciate your words of encouragement.) Yes, after 2,000 years, our Lord Jesus is still in the business of turning people's lives upside down! Salvation is so much about what GOD has done for US, rather than what WE do for HIM. I, too, feel that grace is the pivotal point of the Gospel; without it, there is no Gospel. Certainly, not the Good News gospel! You also wrote: "I could not uphold the doctrinal errors of the Truth because they prevented the grace of God being a reality for me. My eternal welfare was at stake!" That's *exactly* why I, personally, left "The Truth," Elaine! I felt that it (the system) had *hindered* me from understanding God's credible grace. It was like a veil over my eyes. I think it does that for many people. I remember our elder (a deep thinker), in his testimony, coming so close, just about teetering on the edge of grace from some biblical study, only to fall back into the familiar Only Right Way thinking again. It was like a wall/veil that blocked him from seeing grace. I wonder if anyone else has ever experienced that? Compelled by grace, Jeanie 19/7/00
Recommended Reading: "THE GRACE AWAKENING" by Charles Swindoll
It has been my experience that while a FEW workers and friends MAY believe that Jesus is God (or God, the Son) MOST DO NOT! That is why very few of us have EVER heard this from the workers.
After I left the fellowship I had occasion to speak with a more senior worker in Sasktchewan.
True to form, Jim did everything he could to avoid answering my question. He left the room, he changed the subject and he even complemented me on a calendar I'd made in hopes that I'd drop my question. I did not. I pressed him for an answer. I was not going to give up without his answer. Eventually he DID answer. To my question of "Jim, do you believe that Jesus is God?" he FINALLY ANSWERED and I quote him exactly: "Well how could he be?!"
**** wrote: "Yes, many workers and friends believe Jesus is God too because he came from the FATHER."
Well, I'm not so sure about the 'he came from the FATHER' part but I too believe that Jesus is God; more specifically that He is God the Son. This is what most Christian denominations believe. In fact one characteristic of a cult is that they DENY THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST. Or, in other words. they deny that Jesus is God. (Two LARGE cults that deny the deity of Jesus are the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses.) I am glad that **** wrote "many workers and friends believe ...." Notice that he did not write *ALL* workers and friends believe Jesus is God..." Personally I would NOT go as far as **** has in his statement. I would say "SOME workers and friends MAY believe that Jesus is God."
Case in point. I know an EX couple where SHE always believed (as a 2x2) that Jesus was God and her husband NEVER heard of such a thing. Both were B&R (born and raised in the group.) The wife 'gleaned' this insightful knowledge FROM one of the 2x2 hymns! Which one? Well, it is in the OLD "Hymns Old and New" #239 fourth verse says: "Cease not to worship the Father and Son, The Holy Spirit, and these Three are One." Notice the CAPS on the words "these Three are One." Well, I don't know what you were told about WHY a new hymn book was published in 1987. The workers have given many answers to that question. When I asked I was told that SOME of the beliefs in the hymns in the 1951 HYMNS OLD AND NEW were WRONG and needed to be corrected. That hymn, which contained CORRECT DOCTRINE about the Trinity, has NOT been included in the new hymn book! It was the one that began: "Cease not to praise God for all He had done..." Isn't it a shame that they didn't leave that one in; maybe more of the friends would have learned WHO Jesus is! There will be a lot of exes on here who will HAVE NEVER IN THEIR LIVES HEARD FROM THE WORKERS OR THE FRIENDS THAT JESUS IS GOD. And guess what? THAT JESUS IS GOD THE SON (not just God's Son) IS ONE OF THE BASIC BELIEFS OF CHRISTIANITY. IT IS FOUNDATIONAL. NECESSARY TO UNDERSTAND. AND *MOST* IMPORTANT. Now, having said that I am fully aware that SOME exes do NOT believe this. The fact is that this Trinity concept, or as **** also correctly called it, The Godhead, is not easy for us humans to grasp. Jesus is One in the Trinity (a word not in the Bible.) It simply means three. The Father (whom we call GOD) is part of this Trinity; the SON (whom we call Jesus) is part of this Trinity and the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost) is part of this Trinity. These are NOT three separate Gods (I've heard a worker try to say there are 3 Gods! He suggested, as do the JW's that Jesus is "a god." This is not so.) God can BE anything He wants to!
[Compare this Trinity to an every day egg. There are 3 parts to each egg: The Yolk, the White and the Shell. Three parts - but one egg.] **** correctly wrote: "This is a revelation must reveal by the Holy Spirit. Eventually, those who take time to study they will see Jesus Is God! ( the 2nd Person of the Godhead)." I TOTALLY agree with ****'s statement. Still, I am always baffled by **** trying to prove that 'this way' goes back to Jesus because **** seems to understand Salvation by Grace/Jesus' sacrifice for our sins (another topic) and WHO Jesus is. And that's what's important. We need to KNOW Jesus and we need to TRUST that His death has removed our SIN! Period! We do NOT need to be in some WAY that 'seemingly' POINTS to Jesus. Nor do we need a MESSENGER to POINT us to Jesus. (Someone CAN point us to Jesus but this is NOT a necessity.) We have the Bible. PEOPLE GET SAVED BY READING THE BIBLE!!!! THE BIBLE IS GOD'S WORD. God did NOT establish a ministry to be some kind of a Way-Shower.
**** said: "The Holy Spirit will teach and reveal ALL the workers and the friends according to his time."
Maybe the workers aren't very good listeners ****! The workers have had just over 100 years and most of them still don't get it!
Oh, and BTW, we haven't even touched on WHO the Holy Spirit is. I believe most workers think the Holy Spirit is some kind of a force or a 'move' of God. Nope! "HE" is God too! Glad to see you refer to The Holy Spirit as "he" and "his" ****. We agree that The Holy Spirit is never an IT! The Holy Spirit is God just as much as God the Father is God and God the Son (Jesus) is God. The neat part about the Holy Spirit is that He not only convicts us of our sin but He teaches us too! And YES I agree with you **** that each person will understand the Trinity when the Holy Spirit guides them into that understanding. My understanding of WHO JESUS IS came as a result of reading a book which stated: "All cults deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Refer to John 1:1 + 14." The book I was reading did not say WHO Jesus was but only directed me to the scripture. The Holy Spirit, in turn, revealed to me exactly what I had been missing! How wonderful to know WHO Jesus is! Sandi G 18 July 2000
I'm a 3rd generation born and raised in it, married to another 3rd generation born and raised in it (B+R), who professed for 23 years until I left the group at age 36. Even though we have been out of the group for over 9 years, we still have close family -including workers-in the group. The difference in our understanding of scripture, in some cases,
seems to cause some in the group to hold us at arm's length. If there were changes in understanding, there would be no reason for the "stand-offishness" to continue and no reason for them to continue to avoid conversation about these things with us.
Therefore, I have no reason to conclude that any significant changes have taken place in their understanding in the last few years.)
The closest I ever recall coming to hear about the subject of Jesus being God from anyone in the group while I was a part of the group were negative comments made about the Trinity, which I never really heard further explained than by saying, "It's a Catholic doctrine." By which, we all knew it was of no value because we had never been given ANY reason to respect and/or trust the Catholics and what they knew (or didn't know) about the Bible... they were the worst of the worst of the "false churches," weren't they? (I believe this experience is a pretty accurate depiction of the experience of my husband, my parents, my siblings and my siblings' spouses --all also B&R... and other extended family with whom we have visited about this subject.)
I also was a copious note-taker... even when I had babies, I went to the convention nursery when they napped and took notes there.
If others were visiting in the nursery and making it hard for me to hear, I moved closer to the speaker so I wouldn't miss
anything. Before the days of traveling mikes for the testimonies, I transcribed my shorthand notes during the testimony time if I was in the nursery. When the traveling mikes came along and we could hear all the testimonies, I was delighted.
I valued the thoughts from the other friends and appreciated being able to share all of them... I even took notes on the testimonies, with notation of who was speaking, when I knew them personally. I always thought about what I was
hearing... some things, I know now I was guilty of "rearranging" in my own mind to suit my own understanding... but even those things didn't "just go right over my head" so that I simply didn't give them any thought. Some things I questioned and even rejected some after that consideration as NOT being scriptural.
It wasn't until I first read HAS THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE? a few months after I left the group that I was really first introduced to the concept of a Triune God. It also wasn't until that point that I even gave much thought to my understanding of the nature of Christ. It wasn't a subject which had ever been given much emphasis in the group, in my experience. Up to that point, my belief was that Jesus belonged to a "divine" group which probably also included the angels, though he was definitely higher than the angels. Yet, I certainly did not understand him to be God.
Such an idea --placing ANYONE else on a equal plain with God--would have been, to my mind, quite blasphemous.
I was, therefore, EXTREMELY troubled when I read the chapter about the Trinity in the Luxon's book. While I couldn't deny that those verses really were in the Bible and had to agree that they SEEMED to be saying just what the Luxon's suggested, I still had that aversion to such "irreverant thinking" as to place Jesus equal to God. Because of my value for scripture, I couldn't just walk away from these thoughts, though. So, tearfully and prayerfully I pondered these things... it was several months later before I realized that, though I still didn't/couldn't really comprehend it all, I now believed that Jesus was indeed
God the Son and that's just what the Bible teaches.
Since leaving the group and coming to this understanding, I have talked with one ex-worker who says he understood Jesus to be God before he went into the work. I have also heard that Mabel Gibson taught the Trinity. (I am not clear, however, if she spoke clearly about this in the meetings or if this only came up in private conversation.) More recently there were a couple quotes that were circulated (probably they are somewhere on VOT now). I believe one of them came from Carson Cowin (sp?) who was attempting to explain the concept of the Triune God in a meeting. The other, I believe, was Willis Propp categorically denying the possibility that Jesus could be thought to be God.
These two quotes were circulated together because they were expressed in messages from these two workers at about the same time.
So, that makes 5 workers (if we add Leo and **** to the count) that understood Jesus to be God. In my 36 years of professing,
I've known and listened to and talked with quite a number of workers… the 5 would be a minute percentage of the whole. (Of course, some others may have had this understanding, too, but they didn't talk about it in my hearing.) Because it was such a STRANGE concept for me to consider when I DID finally hear of it,
I don't believe it would ever have been possible for me to simply miss it, if anyone spoke about it clearly in my hearing.
My husband visited several conventions and special meetings after we left the group and we did quite a bit of communicating with different ones in the group. Perhaps the subject he was most interested in was what the group believes about who Jesus is.
Therefore, he also had conversations with several older workers (generally pre-scheduled and private) after their messages to question them further on the things that they had said and their belief on who Jesus is. In all the conversations we have had, I don't recall ONE where ANYONE in the group agreed that the Bible teaches Jesus is God. Some have done a pretty good job of attempting to evade the question and talking around the subject so they wouldn't have to answer it out-right. No one has plainly said, "Yes, I believe Jesus is God." The horrified response of one 2x2 lady was, "I will NEVER believe that Jesus is God!" (I believe there are a few more professing (2x2) people we have "met" through the lists and now the message boards who also believe Jesus is God, but by far and above, our general experience has been that people in the group do NOT believe this. Love and Prayers, Connie J 18/7/00
July 19, 2000 Connie's post reminded me of another instance. I had sent out an EXIT LETTER to over 100 2x2 families a few months after leaving the sect. My letter covered a number of things including the history cover-up and WHO Jesus is. Three weeks after I sent out this letter I was speaking with my best 2x2 friend; a lady I loved and respected very much. While professing I had considered her a knowledgeable professing person. She indicated her shock at having received my exit letter: "Sandi! I can't believe you sent that letter! William Irvine did NOT start the Truth. And JESUS is *NOT* God!!!!!" Her emphasis on the part about Jesus was as if to say that I was being blasphemous! She made it VERY clear that she did NOT believe Jesus is/was God! - Sandi
"In the beginning was the Word, And the Word was with God…And the Word was God... And the Word was made flesh…And dwelt among us, And we beheld his glory...." John 1:1, 14
"God was manifest in the flesh," 1 Tim 3:16
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6
"It is finished" John 19:30
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." That's what it says. "God *created* the heavens and the earth." It doesn't say, "God *made* the heavens and the earth." Nor does it say that he "xeroxed" the heavens and the earth. Or "built" or developed" or "mass-produced." No, the word is *created.*
And that one word says a lot. Creating is something far different than constructing. The difference is pretty obvious. Constructing something engages only the hands while creating something engages the heart and the soul.
You've probably noticed this in your own life. Think about something you've created. A painting perhaps. Or a song. Those lines of poetry you never showed to anyone. Or even the doghouse in the backyard.
How do you feel toward that creation? Good? I hope so. Proud? Even protective? You should. Part of you lives in that project. When you create something you are putting yourself into it. It's far greater than an ordinary assignment or task; it's an expression of you!
Now, imagine God's creativity. Of all we don't know about the creation, there is one thing we do know--he did it with a smile. He must've had a blast. Painting the stripes on the zebra, hanging the stars in the sky, putting the gold in the sunset. What creativity! Stretching the neck of the giraffe, putting the flutter in the mockingbird's wings, planting the giggle in the hyena.
What at time he had. Like a whistling carpenter in his workshop, he loved every bit of it. He poured himself into the work. So intent was his creativity that he took a day off at the end of the week just to rest.
And then, as a finale to a brilliant performance, he made man. With his typical creative flair, he began with a useless mound of dirt and ended up with an invaluable species called a human. A human who had the unique honor to bear the stamp, "In His Image."
At this point in the story one would be tempted to jump and clap. "Bravo!" "Encore!" "Unmatchable!" "Beautiful!"
But the applause would be premature. The Divine Artist has yet to unveil his greatest creation.
As the story unfolds, a devil of a snake feeds man a line and an apple, and gullible Adam swallows them both. This one act of rebellion sets in motion a dramatic and erratic courtship between God and man. Though the characters and scenes change, the scenario repeats itself endlessly. God, still the compassionate Creator, woos his creation. Man, the creation, alternately reaches out in repentance and runs in rebellion.
It is within this simple script that God's creativity flourishes. If you thought he was imaginative with the sea and the stars, just wait until you read what he does to get his creation to listen to him!
For example: A ninety-year-old woman gets pregnant. A woman turns to salt. A flood blankets the earth. A bush burns (but doesn't burn up!). The Red Sea splits in two. The walls of Jericho fall. The sky rains fire. A donkey speaks.
Talk about special effects! But these acts, be they ever ingenious, still couldn't compare with what was to come.
Nearing the climax of the story, God, motivated by love and directed by divinity, surprised everyone. He became a man. In an untouchable mystery, he disguised himself as a carpenter and lived in a dusty Judaean village. Determined to prove his love for his creation, he walked incognito through his own world. His calloused hands touched wounds and his compassionate words touched hearts. He became one of us.
Have you ever seen such determination? Have you ever witnessed such a desire to communicate? If one thing didn't work, he'd try another. If one approach failed, he'd try a new one. His mind never stopped. "In the past God spoke...at *many* times and in *various* ways," writes the author of Hebrews, "but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son."
But as beautiful as this act of incarnation was, it was not the zenith. Like a master painter God reserved his masterpiece until the end. All the earlier acts of love had been leading to this one. The angels hushed and the heavens paused to witness the finale. God unveils the canvas and the ultimate act of creative compassion is revealed.
God on a cross.
THE CREATOR BEING SACRIFICED FOR THE CREATION. God convincing man once and for all that forgiveness still follows failure.
I wonder if, while on the cross the Creator allowed his thoughts to wander back to the beginning. One wonders if he allowed the myriad of faces and acts to parade in his memory. Did he reminisce about the creation of the sky and sea? Did he relive the conversations with Abraham and Moses? Did he remember the plagues and the promises, the wilderness and the wanderings? We don't know.
We do know, however, what he said.
"It is finished."
The mission was finished. All that the master painter needed to do was done and was done in splendor. His creation could now come home.
"It is finished!" he cried.
And the great Creator went home.
(He's not resting, though. Word has it that his tireless hands are preparing a city so glorious that even the angels got goose bumps upon seeing it. Considering what he has done so far, that is one creation I plan to see.)
From Max Lucado's book:
NO WONDER THEY CALL HIM THE SAVIOR.
DOES GOD HAVE *YOUR* ATTENTION?
[Above articles can be found in THEY GO ABOUT "TWO BY TWO" by William E. Paul]
Other topics covered in THEY GO ABOUT "TWO BY TWO":
How did it all start? - What are the called? - Method of operation - Their Process of "conversion" - Degree of dedication - Their Meetings - Attitude toward possessions - Attitude toward marriage - The "unpaid preacher" doctrine refuted - The "unmarried preacher" doctrine refuted - Their teaching about Christ
J E S U S
<< When you were professing how did you view Jesus? Who was He in your mind? How did He "seem" to you? >>
I know that I did not ever even entertain the thought that Jesus was God. In fact, I do not think that I was even aware that there were people out there who thought that Jesus was God. I was raised in the 2x2s, and went to multiple meetings a week, and multiple conventions and special meetings a year, and it was never even mentioned.
I do remember vague references to the Trinity being some Catholic doctrine, but I did not even know what the Trinity really was.
Jesus was just a man who had the Christ Spirit. You could have the Christ spirit too if you were as obedient as Jesus was. The term Christ spirit was never really defined as I can remember, but I got the impression that you would basically be living the perfect life if you could access this Christ spirit. It actually does not even make sense logically, but that is the belief system that had indoctrinated my thinking from infancy. In fact, Christ spirit sounds so New Agish.
The emphasis was on follow, follow, follow, follow!!!!! 1/97
When I professed Jesus was an enigma to me. I believed him to be the son of God in much the same fashion as I thought of an earthly father and son. Definitely not the same and definitely not equal. I thought of Jesus as from the beginning with God as His helper and then willing to come to earth as a human being born of the virgin birth. I viewed him as a human being led by the spirit of God in a manner far deeper than any other human ever was or could be. I viewed his death on the cross as "the sacrifice" to give me "the chance" of salvation if I could just live faithful to what I was taught by the workers and stay faithful to the end of my life. This death was not the full price paid for my salvation but only the opening of the door which had to be opened first and then I could hopefully live a life that would secure that prize of salvation after I entered that open door (professing).
I know this sounds awfully confusing and mixed up but then, that is just what I was for 45 years. Thanks be to God that He has revealed to me that Jesus is God and that thru His Grace, and not my works, I am saved.1/97
I talked to one of the friends about Jesus being God. He just said, "Ahhh - don't get into that, there are so many verses proving he is and isn't. You won't get anywhere in talking about it except into an argument." 1/97
I remember Jesus as being an example figure, but more so in the respect that the WORKERS were following the example of Jesus...not really US. So therefore, we had in mind to revere the workers...THEY were the ones really sacrificing like Jesus did....THEY were the ones most WILLING....(are you getting the guilt here?!!)
So, my perception of Jesus was never as a personal saviour...rather as a WAY-SHOWER. And, for those who were "willing", Jesus was a real thing. For those not as "willing", Jesus was just a goal unattainable; one that we would struggle toward all of our lives, and die still not knowing if we "made it." How horribly sad! Hope I made some sense! In Christ and loving it!! ________ 1/97
I've thought a lot about just what did I think about so many things while in the 2x2. Can't say that Jesus was a big concern when I was young. Too much concern with behaving acceptably for parents, who took their queue from workers and from the workers themselves. 1/97
I tried to clear my mind of all I know about the debate on who he is and just remember what I thought, what I felt when I was in the Truth.
He existed in two different ways to me.
(1) When I prayed, I remember I really didn't have a strong sense of who he was. I remember, I prayed to God and the thought that there was another being in heaven was a little confusing (like what was Jesus doing in the mean time, and maybe we should talk to him, too). So, in prayer, I talked to God and treated Jesus as an extension of him, I think. However,
(2) in testimonies I referred to him as we were taught, part divine... part human... kept pure from sin by his obedience to the Father. So he was an example of how I should do it,.. and more than that he represented things that God was most pleased about! The ultimate in his creation, and literally was love, joy, kindness and connection to the highest power.
So, thinking back on it I see how I did some dualistic thinking (Of course, I'm probably the only one, right!) 1/97
One of the things that really embarrasses me now about my association with the group was that I'd never even thought about so many of the BASIC teachings of Christianity. I remember the first time I read THE CHURCH WITHOUT A NAME & I was reading about Jesus being God. My husband came in & looked over my shoulder at what I was reading & said 'what are they talking about?' I remember saying I know it seems radical & is totally new to me, but the scripture they give sure seems to point to this. We were astounded & unconvinced at first!! The really sad thing is I don't think I can fully articulate what I believed about a lot of things. I do remember trying to struggle with reading Jesus & God & trying to sort one from the other. It did confuse me that Jesus is called Lord & other places it mentions the Lord God but things didn't click into place. It was just another area of confusion!! 1/97
I've thought a lot about just what did I think about so many things while in the 2x2. I kept acknowledging that the scripture said "Jesus is God" and could never find a way to reconcile the worker teaching with not only this but a host of other things. How could Jesus sin? Why teach a religion beginning with man (I knew it had to be started by a man) that would be the only group through whom salvation could be received? Where was the scripture saying the meeting had to be in the home? Why was the scripture regarding women’s hair and adornment so twisted? and on and on. 1/97
Question has been raised about what we thought about Jesus. I knew Jesus to be in existence from the first time GOD spoke, for He was that part of GOD (the Word) since the scripture said so. I knew Him to be the WORD made flesh. I know a word is made up of letters, letters are individual characters. Hence I could see that as the WORD made flesh, Jesus existed as GOD in the Flesh, making up all the individual characteristics of GOD as that WORD made flesh.
I believed Jesus when saying "I am" was using the words of GOD from the old testament, when GOD stated "I AM that I AM!" As a child we were asked to learn all the things Jesus said He was, when all had been quoted, I raised my hand and quoted from the old testament, "I AM that I AM" knowing the WORD speaking was JESUS, Mabel Gibson the maverick sister worker and previous school teacher said, "yes, ____, but that was before he was made flesh and blood to live amongst us."
I never doubted that she believed Him to be GOD, not all of GOD, but GOD in the flesh, for she taught me so repeatedly. That she was maverick there was no doubt, constantly being reprimanded for not paying the brothers enough respect! Her favorite retreat was a lady shunned by many others...
While I feel the system is wrong and corrupt, AND is kept so by ALL incontrol, who have compromised so often and so much to attain their "PLACE" that they have become corrupt themselves...I believe there were/are those who thought/think that idealism has a place in peoples lives, and felt/feel that was/is what the 2x2 system offer(ed/s). I do not defend anyone who fail(ed/s) to believe GOD'S Grace to be sufficient! 1/97
When I was professing I felt distant from Jesus. The workers said He was supposed to be my friend, or at least a hymn we used to sing gave me that impression. (What a friend we have in Jesus.) But still He was distant. I thought of Him as God's Son and the one through whom we prayed. But I got the impression I couldn't talk DIRECTLY to Jesus--only through Him to God.
So, when I prayed Jesus seemed like he was sitting about 10 feet away from me--sort of helping me but I couldn't turn and speak to Him. So, how could He be my friend? I could only think about Him but never talk to Him! I can't imagine (in a "worldly" sense) having a friend I've never talked to!
I knew He died for me but that didn't help me to feel grateful or anything. Really, I just didn't get it--where DID Jesus fit in?
My understanding is so much clearer now. I love Jesus and am SO thankful that He has taken all my sin upon Himself. He died not so that I could have a "chance" at heaven if I am "good enough." Rather, he died to remove ALL my sin because I am not capable of taking care of my own sin. He did what was necessary for MY salvation by dying for ME.
I still sin but I believe He has taken care of my sin. The Holy Spirit convicts me of my sin which enables me to live a better life. But that better life doesn't save me--only Christ can do that.
Since leaving the fellowship I am fully confident that Jesus is part of the God-Head. He is God the Son just as the Holy Spirit is God the Spirit and the One we often think of as GOD, is God the Father. I believe in ONE God who identifies Himself to us in three persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. 1/97
There are some in the 2x2s that DO know that Jesus is part of the Triune God but because the workers don't address this issue these folks continue on not knowing others of the friends do NOT believe/know that Jesus is God come in the flesh. Many of the friends have never even HEARD of such!
Some people who profess had been in Christian churches prior to beginning in the 2x2s. Some of these people take their belief of the Triune God with them into the 2x2 religion. Unfortunately some of these same people never notice that the workers don’t accept Jesus as God come in the flesh. 1/97
[Administrative note: Refer to the Worker-Lurker comments on this site and the replies to him/her.]
When worshipping Jesus was mentioned to a relative by marriage who is a hearty 2x2, the response was: "Oh, we don't worship Jesus!" This was after we left the fellowship, and I was astonished.
>>Worship Jesus? No, the friends do not worship Jesus. I'm sure they feel they are following Jesus and worshipping God in all their doings. <<1/97
The workers maintain that Jesus is the example of perfection that mankind must follow in order to have salvation. They call Jesus, the Savior, and acknowledge that His blood, death and resurrection are the avenue of salvation but they teach that it only applies to those who hear, follow and obey the workers. It is only available through the "Truth", the Two by Two church.
Do the friends follow the workers or do they follow Jesus? The friends follow - for the most part, just a generalization, but holds to the majority - the Jesus that the workers offer the friends. And this Jesus is very similar to their own selves, the workers' own selves. 2/97
My professing aunt told my dad, 'I'll NEVER believe that Jesus is God!'
About this time I also heard about Jesus being God for the very first time in my life. And I didn't believe it! NO WAY! So I set out to prove it false. But the evidence mounted, and I began to really look at the Bible passages. Eventually I had to admit it was true! 12/96
I too found, after really listening, that there was far too much emphasis on the way, instead of on THE WAY who is Jesus. 2/97
"Lord Jesus, You are my righteousness, I am Your sin. You took on You what was mine; yet set on me what was Yours. You became what You were not, that I might become what I was not." -- Martin Luther
If you take poison--thinking it's medicine--all the faith in the world won't restore your life. Similarly, if Jesus is the only source of salvation, and you're trusting in anyone or anything else for your salvation, your faith is useless.
The matter of the crucifix and any picture of Jesus not being good things to have in the house is mentioned in the public meetings and in private talks. 2/97
We are talking about religious cults right? Well, in my humble opinion a religious cult is any religious group that places anyone or anything in the place where Jesus is supposed to be. He is the only mediator between God and man. He himself said He is the only way. Any other way cannot be right. I would also be suspect of any religious group that practices information control. 2/97
We were shocked at how many times "the way" and "the workers" were mentioned. It finally dawned on us every conversation with the friends was full of that, rarely God or Jesus. Jesus, the way, was equal to "the way". 2/97
I have been listening much closer in meetings lately. Several times from several different people, I have heard mention of "thanks for Jesus' sacrifice that allows us these meetings." I heard this even in special meeting!!! No mention from these same people about Jesus' sacrifice for our sins. (Although others mentioned it.) Could some people actually believe Jesus died to bring us meetings??????? ARGH!!!! 12/96
I have a feeling though that, despite what the workers fed her, it seems she may have gotten some of the salvation message by knowing in her heart that Jesus IS God. 08/96
<< I guess it's not really a 2x2 trait to talk much about Jesus. >>>
***You are right! When the subject of Jesus comes up with the 2x2's, it's like a huge black cloud comes right over where we are sitting!! One would think that such a group as this one…. the only group who knows the real "truth" ....would want to talk about Jesus!! No way!! They don't know what to say!! I remember the hesitancy the workers even had about talking about Jesus...and they certainly never brought it up on purpose!!*** 12/96
This confidence that I have comes from having a personal relationship with the one true God...our Lord Jesus Christ. I had finally gotten that special "something" that I had always seen in my Christian friends at school, but never found in my service to God within the 2x2's. 12/96
"Never be afraid to question your beliefs. The only people who responded to the preaching of Jesus, were those prepared to examine their existing beliefs with an open mind."
Now, when I think of the way Jesus loves, I see him washing the disciples' feet. I see him when the disciples were arguing amongst themselves who was the greatest--he set a little child in front of them & told them whoever received the little child in His name, would receive Him, etc. I see him caring about people's natural needs, when they were hungry or thirsty he fed them or gave them a drink. When they were afraid He calmed the storm. When they were sick He healed them. When they were hurting He didn't add to that hurt by condemning them or stoning them. He had compassion, and He displayed that so well when He too wept when Lazarus died, even though He brought him back to life later. But the greatest love He ever showed was when He died on the cross for the sins "I" committed. He died in "my" place. The words to a song I sang at church come to mind & I'll write them here for those who might be unfamiliar. Part of it follows:
"When He Was On the Cross" by Mike Payne & Ronnie Hinson
The look of love was on His face
Thorns were on His head
Blood was on His scarlet robe
Stained a crimson red
Though His eyes were on the crowd
He looked ahead in time
And When He was on the cross
I was on His mind.
Chorus:
For He knew me yet He loved me
He whose glory makes the heavens shine
So unworthy of such mercy
Yet When He was on the cross
I was on His mind.
Because of His Love,
Joetta Heiser
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1
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