-- -- --COMMENTS-- -- --
I remember praying in meeting that God would take away the peace of those who had gone out, so they would be driven back to the Truth.
God forgive me.
Now I have more peace than I have ever had before, despite the fact that after six years I still haven't resolved where I want to worship. But I've never been happier, probably because the buzzing of cognitive dissonance is gone from my head <lol>.
Shelley Bates, in hot & dry CA
Dear Shelley,
I can relate so well to your expressions, especially regarding the cognitive dissonance, which really wears on the psyche and dulls one's zest for life. Thanks for sharing your feelings.
Sincerely,
Paul Abenroth
Response to a Two-by-Two:
Chris,
I've been mulling over the posts here for the last few weeks, and since I'm a "moderate" I don't post often, but today feel moved to say something.
When you talk about the early workers meaning "Jesus alone" when they spoke of the way, the truth and the life, then I seriously doubt my sanity. I have books and books of notes from a lady who was a "helper" to Bill and Maggie Carroll. She wrote at every convention many in NZ and I have yet to find the Jesus you talk about.
I also spent 28 yrs professing and all during that time I learnt a language, let's hypothetically call it Twoism. I heard it spoken all around me, at home, meetings, missions, and conventions. Then one day, someone said to me, "but Christism is the language of Christians." Hmmmm???? Well I had never heard it before, never heard anyone speak of Jesus without the conotations added which include a way of worship, truth of the 2X2 minstry and life of self denial.
Why didn't I hear that language? Because it was NEVER spoken. The truth of the Gospel was NEVER spoken, the truth of a rich and free salvation was NEVER spoken, the truth of the diety of Christ was NEVER spoken. How then could I have understood something I had never heard?
How can people understand unless they hear? How can they know without being taught? How do we see our world? Only in the way we have been taught from a child to relate to that world. Mine was far removed from the truth of the Word of God, it was twisted and changed till to me it was unrecognisable.
If your children get taught Darwins theory at school, and go to you with questions I'm sure you will point out the errors of that theory. I didn't have anyone at home to point out the errors of the theory that one must come through the workers teaching of Christ to be born again.
So what hope had I till in 1998 I found someone who told me the real truth. And I learnt a different language, the language of the Christian, telling of Jesus alone being the way, truth and life. Telling of salvation as a gift that we cannot work for and that truth is not a fellowship but Christ himself.
8/28/04
Post to 2x2 List from a professing man:
I am not a spokesperson for the fellowship of F&W, and have no way of knowing what you have been taught or what you heard in meetings. If you feel I have lied to you, or have behaved in an unchristlike manner, then by all means point that out to me.
I am sorry that your faith was in the rightness of the group you were in fellowship with - rather than in Christ who is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
If you have in fact found Christ, why are you not thankful for the path that has led to where you are now?
If you had been raised on the streets by drug addict gang-member parents - might you have been worse off than you are now? Or even if you had been raised by atheists who have no understanding of the love and power of God?
Response to post to 2x2 List from a professing man:
Chris -- I assume this part of your letter was directed at me. However, since I get the distinct impression that you just don't want to listen to anything anyone says if it's negative about meeting -- I'm really not writing this for you but for others who might be interested.
One of the things I realized a few years ago, is that there really is NO spokesman for the group. A worker in one place can tell you one thing & another can come along & change it. For instance it used to be that if you were divorced and remarried, you couldn't take part in mtg. However, in the U.S. -- there used to be if you lived in one section -- you could be allowed to take part. Some people therefore, just moved, so they COULD take part in mtg. I recall a story where some people lived in one state but travelled in the winter to another. Wouldn't you know it -- in the one area they were allowed a part in the mtg. but in the other they weren't......So absolutely, you don't know what I was or wasn't taught in the mtgs. so why do you tell me how I should or shouldn't feel. One of the things I realized when I began reading other's experiences from the 2x2 group, was they the experiences were varied; but there were so many similar threads running through it.
I never said YOU personally lied to me. The fellowship ITSELF however, is built on a lie. The foundation is rotten and they see no need to admit that or tear down the old and put the proper things in it i.e.sound scriptural foundations. They want to perpetuate the lie and I flat out want no part of a group like that.
My confidence WAS in a WAY because that is what the workers taught. We were in the ONLY right way, we were the ONLY ones who 'could' be saved, all other churches and believers were doomed to Hell. It wasn't taught that JESUS is the way but the truth was the way.
As I said before, I am not bitter but I'm surely VERY angry. I have found Christ and I rejoice (probably not often enough) in that. It makes me angry though that for many years I was spinning my wheels, trying so hard to live so rigidly in hopes that I could be accepted. I regret that I spent so many years in bondage for nothing..........but that has made me appreciate GRACE and mercy so much. But you know, the workers and friends don't like hearing about grace......!! I do realize that God has a plan for me and that plan was in place before I was born. I accept that but it doesn't make me less angry that men are corrupting God's way, by making it man's way and keeping people in bondage still!!
I appreciate my parents more than you could ever know Chris. My Dad died almost 4 years ago and Mom died 17 months after Dad. Part of what makes me angry IS the way my parents were treated. My Dad was a worker 
for about 3 years.
His story is in the REFLECTED TRUTH book. My grandparents on both sides professed. When we heard the story about William Irvine starting the group . . . I didn't immediately tell my parents. When they questioned us though, we did tell them that we were reading THE SECRET SECT. Dad immediately said, he wanted to read it. He said he'd never understood where it started & had always had questions about it. Mom & Dad read their Bibles very faithfully together after Dad retired. They had questioned many things that they read and wondered why some of those things didn't line up with what they were taught at mtg. They had read the many references to Jesus being God and had come to that conclusion on their own. They saw people they went to mtg. with treated badly and didn't like the injustices being meted out. Mom & Dad eventually did leave the meetings but not without a lot of prayer and thought. They told me about going to the funeral home or to a funeral of a professing person, and the folks from meeting turning their backs to avoid speaking to them. Don't preach to me Chris, about being grateful to my parents. My parents valued truth though, and when the truth couldn't tell the TRUTH -- they left. I will tell you though, that my Dad's parents were looking for something when the workers came to their little town preaching. They very nearly got caught up in the Jehovah Witnesses. I see absolutely NO DIFFERENCE in the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormans, 2x2s, or any other cults. There are many good, honest people in the JW's who also feel they are in the only right way and will defend it just like you are doing.
Chris, as I said before, this letter isn't necessarily to you and you don't really have to reply. I can just about predict the way you would answer from your other letters. But as I stated before..............this letter is for others who HONESTLY want to know what I feel.
Sincerely,
Joetta Heiser
From 8-30-04, response to Melinda's questions:
Hi Melinda:
You are asking some very good and legitimate questions. There is NO reason to not ask questions. In school if you didn't understand something -- you ask the teacher to explain it. A good teacher can explain nearly any topic to most anyone. Why should our salvation and belief not be the same.
I remember when we left meetings about 12 years ago now.....that I had begun very slowly attending a church here in our neighborhood. The first time that I really had a one-on-one conversation with the pastor, he told me if I ever had a question about something he preached or said to ask him where he was coming from. He would give me the chapter and verse and he said, challenge me on anything!! I stood there, so shocked and replied very slowly to him, "I can't believe that someone with more authority than me, would say that." He practically roared at me, 'I don't have ANY more authority than you, I have more responsibility but definitely not more authority!!" You see the difference in the way I was treated? This pastor visited with us many, many times trying to help us over the hurdles of what we had always believed, verses what the Bible actually teaches. He couldn't understand how ingrained this was with our life, because he really had had no personal contact with people in cults before; however he, his wife and my husband and I attended a cult conference together in another city in our state. We all got some education through that. We still attend that church -- and I can't begin to tell you how grateful we are for the teaching we've received over the years. Another thing this pastor says, is that as long as we continue to preach the word of God . . this church will stand. When we fail to preach that -- we will fall!! Perhaps that exactly is what you see happening in the meetings today! By all means 'test' your spirits and your faith.
You can see that the workers are not true shepherds when they don't leave the 99 as mentioned in the Bible and go after that one lone sheep. We too, saw this. It depended on what family you were connected to, whether you got attention or not. The true love just doesn't seem to exist. Another real complain I have is how the old people at meeting are treated.
When they are no longer able to maintain a home or have a meeting, entertain workers .................. it is as if they never existed. I see very little visits to nursing homes or the elderly who are ill. But when they die ...... everyone flocks to the funeral in a big show.
Where were they when that person needed encouragement or needed to be fed a meal, bathed, etc.
How many times did that poor soul care for the worker's needs?
I find that injustice to be very great.
Thanks for writing,
Joetta Heiser
Hi, My dad smoked before joining the cult then he quite gave it all up for the workers. I was amazed at the time. Thought this has to be the right way.
When the pain of attending meetings became to much to bare when we moved to Toronto I lived on my own then and begin to drink and smoke and go to the go go bars on Younge Street. 1969. I remember the last few times I didn't go to meetings drove my parents and brother to the Sunday meeting and drove around came back and sat in the car outside of the meeting house with my heart breaking from loneleness and the feeling of separation. Had the feeling that I was all alone in the world.
The drinking and smoking filled that huge loss of natural and 2x2 family. Knew at that time I was going to hell and felt very strongly the condemnation. Went to a few conventions after that and a few meetings after my family moved back to BC. I would sneak off on the weekends to have a drink and a puff on the side as this meeting thing didn't fill the hole in my spirit of not knowing Christ. Christ was never held up with Joy and praise and glorified in any meeting I had ever attended.
To make a long story short, I quite smoking in 1982 as I was very sick in the hospital with double viral lung infection. A little wake up call of how helpless one is with 10% lung capacity. Was also bad for the children when I smoked at home. Between counting smokes and chewing that terrible tasting nicodine gum, I finally quit. It took about 3 years before the powerful addiction lost most of its grip. Took a puff once and almost got sick :-) I feel for anyone who has that addiction. I understand that it is as addictive as crack coccaine, never tried it :-) Smoking gives that feeling of being in control and at ease in one's body and mind for a short time until the next craving grabs the person.
Robin White
My sister put The Secret Sect book in my hands to read back in 1987 and I looked at those pictures and saw men I knew and had visited with.
Yes, Nichol Jardine who had been sent out by William Irvine, and was our head worker in Wisconsin from about 1907 until he died in 1954. Well, let me tell you, when I finished reading the book, I said to myself, I cannot support this system and I never gave to the workers again.........and I never heard of any workers starving, or lacking anything.
I knew a professing couple and their son for a number of years and they had meeting in their home and workers often stayed at their place. But as the son grew older and left home he lost out and became like the prodigal son, and soon after this the boy's mother became ill and passed away. Soon the boy's father married a professing woman and now the boy had a stepmother, then after a few years his father became ill and he passed away. His stepmother did not get married again but continued to live in the house that he had grown up in. Well, it wasn't very long until his stepmother became ill and she passed away, but before she had passed away she had papers made out that the estate would be inherited by a woman worker that was preaching in another state for about 20 years.
The head worker in her state gave her several months off from saving sinners and getting them into the only true way that goes to heaven. So she could come back to hire people to put in new carpeting and redecorate the house and put it on the market.
It was almost ready to be put on the market when the prodigal son came home, and he rang the bell and the worker opened the door and he stepped inside. He asked her if his father had any papers drawn up that may have left him some inheritance of the home he had grown up in. She told the son that it was all hers and that there was nothing left for him and there is the road, go and don't come back.
The estate would easily have been valued at $300,000 and legally it was all hers and he did not contest it, but morally I wonder if she did the right thing. I mean here she had a chance to preach to the prodigal son in the home that he grew up in. I mean the very thing she gave her life for, as she sold all and gave it to the poor, " I mean the head worker".when she went out into the work to find prodigal son's. I think she blew her chance of showing what a worker's heart really should be.
I think I read one time that said "no man, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Yes, that woman worker was in her field for about 20 years plowing and plowing and planting seeds in the black soil for the kingdom of God, but one day she heard some news from the town where she grew up, and she turned and looked back. Yes, she gave up all for the gospel sake but she turned and looked back and she saw green and it wasn't grass either.
In all my professing year's I always heard workers preaching that we need to follow the example of Jesus, but I never read anywhere where Jesus gave any of his apostles several months off to go back home and inherit a good chunk of cash. Yes, the son's stepmother was a widow and somewhere it says, "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you devour widows houses." But maybe I don't know yet what Jesus meant by that.
Well, there is one more cash story about the workers I will tell you and it may be astonishing to you, but you may have heard stories like this during your professing years, that workers keep thousands of dollars in cash standing around in suitcases, and it's a worry to them. What I mean is that they may be worrying more over a suitcase filled with cash, than getting one sinner to repent.
My ex-worker friend that had been in the work for 24 years told me that his older companion, Murray Keene about 1980 was going on the special meeting rounds and Murray wanted him to know that just in case anything happened to him traveling around the country that he was leaving a suitcase in the closet and he should keep an eye on it as it had $10,000 cash in it. Then two years later he had Earl Newmiller for his older companion, and Earl told him he was going to leave for a while and he should keep watch on that black bag in the closet as it had $10,000 cash in it. Jesus went into a cornfield with some apostles to eat some corn one time and I don't think he ever worried about caring around a suitcase full of cash.
Well, you asked me to write here to tell you my worker money stories and I know some people may not believe them but they are true, and I have a few more but I will not tell them now, but my friend, when the workers come to visit you and your wife, try to be good to them, as they will be tired and hungry.
Tom Schroeder
Posted on the 2x2 List on 12-06-04
Some 2x2s have trouble giving straight direct answers. It's difficult for them because their mindset is such that they are always on the lookout for the possibility that other people will interpret what they say in a way other than they intended.
This is a common "trap" we 2x2s made for ourselves long ago.
Many of us had to learn to overcome this, but first, we had to recognize, acknowledge, understand, and accept it.
Confused? Don't be.
Many of us were raised to look for the alternate meanings in what we read and heard. Think about it. We were always looking for a spiritual angle on every aspect of our life; It gave us something to share with others in our meeting testimony. Good testimonies always included an analogy. After all, that's what (we thought) Jesus did with his many parables. It came at a cost though. We taught ourselves to analyze everything we saw, read, and heard to the point where we were reading things into it that weren't really there. What's worse, we assumed (incorrectly) that everyone outside Truth did the same. This made us hypersensitive the the possibility that someone would take our words out of context and use them against us.
This hypersensitivity to how others will interpret what we say is what drives some 2x2s to respond as they do. It seems dishonest, shifty, evasive, and at times, downright fake, but as a product of their environment, that's who they are and, frankly, what we should expect of them.
Why get ruffled when a 2x2 tries to attack your new church??
When they say you can’t worship in a building, simply smile sweetly and say, “The people aren’t perfect but the way is.”
When they say you can’t have paid preachers, say, “Well, the people aren’t perfect but the way is.”
When they say you “pass around a plate for money,” say, “Well, the people aren’t perfect but the way is.”
When they say they can’t understand how you can go and listen to “THAT” stuff, say, “Well, you need to attend more services.”
When they say they don’t understand how you can go and fellowship in “THOSE” clothes, say, “Well, you need to attend more services.”
When they say you have lots of questions, say, “You really do need to come more often and your questions will be answered.”
When they say your church was founded by “man,” say, “I don’t know but the spirit is from God who was in the beginning.”
The “way” really is perfect and the people aren’t. ;o)
Name Withheld
Posted on the 2x2 List on March 4th, 2000
Since leaving the 2x2's, I realize the "REAL" purpose behind all the hundreds of letters that workers write (each letter copied to dozens) their flock - they don't get "FORM" letters back from the friends, but they "DO" get those marvelous little "GIFTS" tucked in. If you want to see a worker nervous, let them go several days without getting their mail!!! When they move from place to place, that is a primary thing they tend to - making sure that their mail catches up with them - "QUICKLY!!!!" Besides convention, it is their only "FORMAL" fundraising medium. All of us should realize that they never "get enough" from the handshakes at gospel meetings. Solicition by form letters is acceptable because they just "don't have enough time" to write each person an individual letter.
They are "SO, SO' VERY, VERY busy!!!!
Name Withheld
Posted on The 2x2 List on February 11, 2000
Taylor Wood told us at convention "NOT" to tell people our church doesn't have a name but rather tell them that we are "an nondenominational Christian Church". FWIW
Posted on October 28, 2000
What concerns me more than all the rules of what not to do is that people then receive almost no guidance as to what to do.
The irony is that we are a do-nothing works based group. Sounds like an oxymoron but in fact, our saving "works" are based on what we don't do rather than what we do do.
These days, there is much less pressure and teachings about "don't do", but there we remain largely a do-nothing group.
Friends are a little freer to do good things on their own in their communities, but they are not encouraged to do any kind of ministering (temporal or spiritual) in the community and heaven help them if they try to enlist other friends in a good cause.
Yes a more Christ focused fellowship is what we need and would result in f&ws being far less hungup on what not to do, and would feature much more activity in good causes with their neighbours, in the community, toward other church members, and toward family.
There are a lot of Ex-2x2’s who do not attend church. There are others who leave the “WAY” and become atheists. Yet in listening to most of these people I have come to believe that they haven't really rejected God. Instead, they have rejected what they have been taught about God.
And even for many who haven't left, they are in deep pain, most often because they have never experienced love in its most pure form. When you grow up believing that God is an angry God, you don't turn to God for love. And when we do turn to God carrying this view, our notion of forgiveness is grossly distorted. And so since we don't ever experience real forgiveness, we can never truly forgive.
I heard once that the main reason people seek therapy is because of their inability to forgive, or their inability to accept forgiveness.
Is it any wonder we have so many 2x2’s with so many problems? Yes, Satan does attack those of us who have had our concept of God so messed up. We end up hiding the real problem - the real Gospel message doesn't reach us.
The focus of too many worker sermons is to "bring people to the "way" by condemning them to and making them afraid they'll go to hell or experience the wrath of God if they don't "profess." That's a horrible basis for starting a relationship with God through Christ.
The message that each and every person needs to hear, saved or not, is that God took the time to carefully make each person. That's the real message of Genesis 2. He gave each person a unique set of gifts for a purpose.
A lot of us Ex-2x2's talk so much about "having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ " that we forget that He desperately wants a personal relationship with us, and He goes out of His way to make that happen. Yes, the Bible is critical to the life of the Christian, but we must not be closed to the concept that God reaches out to touch us through all of His creation. Sometimes it's through nature, sometimes it's through another person, sometimes it's through prayer, sometimes it's through communion, sometimes it's through our service to those in need.
Please, please know that God loves you as an individual, for who you really are, defects, warts, and all. And please, be sure that everyone you meet hears this message as well, and encourage them to become aware of His Presence around them.
Name Withheld
Unfortunately, Jesus wasn't my friend when I was a small child (I barely knew that He existed). All I knew about was a nasty, condemning God, and HE was small comfort to me. And Jesus wasn't there in my teenage years.
I would have been exceedingly grateful for such a kind friend. But the Jesus I knew said things like, "Thou Fools....." (I was sick of being a fool) and "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you and persecute you................Rejoice, and be exceeding glad for great is your reward in heaven...."(I was sick of being reviled and persecuted by my own father and by the "friends" and "workers" and by the kids in my school) for some wacky religion!!!
Posted on the 2x2 List on July 28th, 1998
Name Withheld
Looking back over the 33 years that I went to various conventions, I do not think I ever slept in a facility that would not have trapped many of us if there had been a fire. Although there were two ways out, the suitcases and other "tripping hazards" as well as not being able to see or feel ones way out would be a real problem.
With all the millions that have been spent over the years to house people without worldly influences on convention grounds, the workers could have put all of them in motels for the four days.
I view conventions as fund-raising activities anyway. Just remember that most of the meat and vegetables are donated by "the friends" as well as a lot of the "paper goods".
Many families save up money all year long just to be able to give a considerable donation at convention time. If 300 people give only $100, that's $30,000! Although some may not give any, many give hundreds of dollars or more at that time.
A couple of years ago, one of the professing friends reported to me that she saw two male workers with tote bags in both hands going into the front of a bank near the Boring, Oregon convention grounds on a Friday. She saw them because Boring has two different weeks of convention and this was the week she was NOT scheduled to be there. She speculated that by Monday morning, two might not be able to carry in all the "take" since many do not give their "secret offering" until the weekend because many of the "faithful" are not there on Thursday and Friday. Of course, Boring has another week of fund-raising the following week.
Posted on the 2x2 List on August 16, 2004
Name Withheld
Dear All,
I think that the "DOCTRINE" of the 2x2's regarding self-esteem can be summed up quite simply............
"A BROKEN WILL!!!!!"
"THIS" is the doctrine they teach - that a person's will must be broken and beaten down to become a humble professing person. I think this is a terrible misunderstanding on the part of the workers. They believe in subduing talents, natural gifts of ability, personalities and passions.
They seem to have an understanding of having to "BREAK" a person's will by beating them down into a box. They do this by enforcing all the rules and dictating lifestyle.
I believe the workers often refer to a horse when talking about a broken will - that the horse has to be "broken in" and forced to become obedient. What they don't seem to understand is that this is a very bad analogy. Horses retain all of their character, ability and talents. The only thing they lose is their rebelliousness against their owner. And this is not done by harshness. It is done by careful training with gentleness.
I do not believe that God wants us to have a broken will in the way the workers describe it. We can retain all of our passion and personality - we just channel it in the right direction and for the right purposes rather than subduing it.
I think of Paul, the apostle. He was a man of passion with great zeal. When he went from persecuting the Christians to preaching the Word of God. He didn't lose character or passion. He just redirected it and used it for the purposes and glory of God. Another thing the workers don't seem to realize - it is the work of God through His Word to teach us to redirect our will. It cannot be forced upon us by the oppression of other men - or it does become a breaking of the will rather than a redirection by the Holy Spirit.
God wants us to have a strong will and a convicted will. He needs these things for the use of His Kingdom.
Praising Him who does not give us abilities to subdue or waste, but rather to give Him glory!!
Posted on October 2nd, 1997
George Peterson, overseer of Oklahoma, spoke once about Jesus being wrapped in swaddling clothing. George said that the reason for this was to deny Jesus of his human nature that wanted to take its own way. George spoke of how parents should deprive children of wanting t have their own way. George, it is funny how the apparel Jesus wore is more important than HIS teachings!! George, how can children today be perfect like Jesus Christ was anyway?
George! George, there is NOTHING spiritual about the type of clothes Jesus wore on earth! Come on George, STOP trying to spiritualize parents keeping children out of sports or anything that might boost their self esteem!
George! George! George! George!
Posted on October 28, 2000
Has George Peterson ever raised any children? NO! So how can George Peterson tell people at convention how they should raise their children??
George needs to preach Jesus and not child rearing!! Please!! Yet George is vague with his details. Also, George is using a piece of apparel that the Christ child was wrapped in, to tell parents today how to raise their kids!
Sick!
Posted on October 28, 2000
The biggest, actual "stumbling block or hindrance" is to be gossipy about one another and use peer pressure to get a brother or sister to "toe the line" in the 2x2 group.
The most dangerous stumbling block or hindrance is for true Christians to keep their mouth shut and let people go to hell without telling them THE TRUTH, without telling them about Grace, this is Good News. The gospel means "Good News" and if what people are teaching is not "Good News", it is NOT THE GOSPEL.
Posted on the 2x2 List on July 15, 2004
Name Withheld
When I was professing it never occurred to me that the workers did not agree on their own doctrine. And, frankly, I didn't know what their doctrine was! Perhaps not so strange now that I think about it as it seems they hardly know what they believe themselves. (Take this as sarcasm if you wish but, really, I don't think they DO know what they believe!!! And since questions were a no-no I rarely asked!)
If they are united, for example, "the same the world over", I think they jolly well SHOULD agree on what they believe! Perhaps they should write down their beliefs?!! You know, like a regular church, and let all their people KNOW what they believe! How can they be shepherds without letting their people "in" on what they believe!?
One of the most confusing things for kids growing up is when one parent says "this" and the other parent (on the same subject) says "that."
Could it be that the workers are their own worst enemies because they do not believe the same things? Think of those poor little "children of God" not knowing whether to believe "this" or "that".
You mentioned about doctrine being neglected! That's a nice way to put it! The worker's doctrine is twisted and often just dead wrong! The scary part is that they are right often enough that they have even fooled Christians!
Irvine and his doctrinal error is another of our/their problems today. Irvine did not have enough doctrinal grounding in the Faith Mission (the group he was with before he formed the "Truth") and as a result he led all of "his" people into doctrinal error. The Faith Mission WAS and still IS teaching Christian doctrine but when Irvine placed so much emphasis on Matthew 10 he got off the Christian tract. He began to discredit all other churches, did not preach salvation by Grace, etc.
Various experiences throughout my life made me realize that 'The Truth' does not uphold Christ as our Savior enough.
A big factor in my being utterly at peace and never once having a doubt about my decision to leave was due to my attending 7 years of Bible Study Fellowship, a voluntary inter-denomination Bible study, that was equivalent to taking college course (wasn't a social thing, as the workers insinuate studies are when worldly people get together to study the Bible). Now, THEY know how to study the Bible so you understand it, and it sticks with you! And they don't push their beliefs on you. They tell you alternative understandings of various scriptures. You get an over all picture of a whole book in the Bible. Mixed with the history. The workers strong point is NOT teaching, let me tell you! When I began there, I thought, "This will be a cinch--I'm probably the only one here who has studied their Bible much" (in a class of 300 ladies). Was I EVER in for a surprise. Many of the ladies had far better answers to the questions than I did! How could I say these ladies didn't have the spirit as they shared their heart rending experiences? I couldn't. Then it began to irritate me when people in meetings put down other Christians. I didn't know that I didn't know ANYTHING. And thought I knew it all!
I had long wondered "What must I do to be saved?" Well, finally I got the answer. I learned what God really wants from us--and it wasn't what the workers were teaching. Still I hung in because I believed the lie was true that it was "the only way." It bothered me because so many things about it were imperfect--MY God was able to make and maintain perfection. So how could this be?
There are so many negative and False sermons preached at convention. One fairly recent one was they talked about the 5 wise and 5 foolish, and he said that that means "50% of people sitting in this tent won't be saved". That was REAL encouragement I thought! (NOT!). Another time they talked about our "willful sins" won't be forgiven. I actually always knew they had to be WRONG on this point.
Once you have been in contact with the real thing, a counterfeit is not hard to spot.
The Bible has opened up far more to me in the last two weeks than it has in 20 years of going to 2x2 meetings!
One thing that I have observed in talking/writing to EX2x2s is that, while they professed, they had God all tangled up with the "Way." Hence, when they left the "Truth" they were not able to find Him. To them He seems still mixed together with the "Way." I believe this is one of the reasons that some of the friends leave the fellowship and never have a relationship with God. I feel sad about this but this is yet another "thing" that the workers' teaching has done to us/them.
"A primary characteristic of cults in general is the practice of taking biblical texts out of context in order to develop pretexts for their theological perversions. In addition, cults have virtually made an art form out of using Christian terminology, all the while pouring their own meanings into the words. For example, while practically all cults laud the name 'Jesus,' they preach a Jesus vastly different from the Jesus of the historic Christian faith. As Jesus Christ Himself put it, the real litmus test is 'Who do you say I am?' "(Matt 16:15). (Walter Martin)
How can we not be upset when men would defile His name and Who He Is!!??
There is no neutrality with God, and everything is either for or against. All false gospels are definitely against, even if they masquerade as an 'Angel of Light' with the most zealous, lovely people.
In my 36 years of being in the system (not just in body but in spirit) I can honestly say I don't even ONCE remember hearing the true gospel message of sin, grace, redemption and justification presented by ANYONE in the system. What I understood of redemption, I gleaned through the word of God and the Spirit's work in my heart... never from a clear presentation of it.
In fact, _____ and I believe that if a worker really started preaching the true message, he/she would be put out of the work. The true gospel of God's grace and justification through the blood of Jesus renders the "works" of belonging to the 2&2 system of the homeless ministry and the meetings in the home as extraneous. For the workers to begin preaching the true gospel, would be for them to preach themselves out of a congregation because of the "bondage" that is so much a part of the system. If salvation is the free gift of God (and it is-Rom 6:23) and if "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."--Rom 8:1 (and there isn't!), then we don't need to labor all our life in "the only right way" in order to earn our salvation.
Indeed, then, there is no more bondage to the group mentality, the legalism, the lack of doctrinal understanding, etc, etc... and "Then, you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."--John 8:32 the message of the 2&2 system is totally of a works-based salvation. People in the system live defeated lives... they try,they fail, they just don't know if God will EVER accept them because they just can't stay "good." I've never heard the definition of God's grace as 'His UNMERITED favor' from anyone in the group. I didn't speak of grace much because I felt I didn't really understand it... the only way I ever heard it spoken of in the group was of His strength imparted to help us along (only, with all the defeat, it didn't seem to work very well.)
Yes, because the message of the 2&2 system is a works-based message, the probability is that people would "join up" to be saved by belonging to the group... that's the message they're hearing... and that's very dangerous. Because of this, I still say, the fact that some people find salvation while they are connected to the system is in spite of and in contradiction to the 2&2 system and it's message.
And that is why I no longer believe it makes sense to try to "fix" the system. If the foundation is faulty, the building on it CAN'T be made to stand firmly no matter how hard we try... and no one NEEDS to stay in the system...it is not necessary for salvation and there is abundant and wonderful fellowship with other devoted Christians to be found all over the world! There is no reason to exclude from that fellowship those with whom we have enjoyed fellowship with in the past within the system, either... tho, most of us have found that those within the system no longer believe THEY can fellowship with US once we leave their system.
I heard a lot about the "plumb line" in meetings. I assumed they meant the Word of God, but now I'm not sure.
For some of us the "Who Is Jesus" question was a big reason why we started questioning the 2&2 fellowship and authority of the workers. Of the 20 workers we talked to or heard a definite statement from in 1992, 5 said Christ is (part of) God and the others said not. One of the 5 was a brother worker from Europe, in the work here in _____, who got our exit letter and wrote to us and freely used the word Trinity to describe his belief in God. He seemed to be under the impression that all workers believed the same and he asked the overseer in ______. An overseer in ______ had written to the overseer in ______ to warn him about us and the one in ______ had written to us that he had "never heard of such a thing as Jesus Christ being God". Later he told the same brother in _______ that he believes in Trinity and that Christ is (part of) God. One overseer on the "no" side in _______said he didn't know when Jesus came into being but he also said he believes the same doctrine as the overseer who was on the "yes" side!
Then one of the 5 changed sides and went with the majority to make it only 4. He had told me directly that Trinity is right doctrine but later wrote us and said Trinity is Catholic doctrine and that he didn't intend to go that way. In the same letter he stated that WE were wandering around in the confused religious world. Later when the pressure was off, he told others again that Trinity is true doctrine. We asked him if he could hear the rooster crowing but I guess that wasn't nice.
What is the sum of all this? I can understand there being some difference in opinion over exactly how we describe the relationship between Father and Son and even within a church group such as the 2&2s I would not complain if there was some differences but not if they teach that their GROUP is the Only Way to be saved. Then they must be in complete agreement. [The point, of course, is, that the workers do not agree with each other on their doctrine!]
My dear Mom DID understand the Trinity and she was STILL sucked into the 2x2s. She did NOT know that the workers don't believe in the Trinity.
I had asked the workers if I could tape record their sermons and I was told "No, because it might get into the wrong hands." Looking back I wonder why that didn’t sound strange to me. One would think that if God’s true word is being preached, there would be nothing to hide. Isn’t God’s word able to stand against any test?
The "No Church Building" Doctrine Refuted by William E. Paul
One of the "Two by Twos" most vehement objections is aimed at the use (and especially ownership) of a special building for their regular church meetings. Being extremely conservative, they strongly oppose anything that might suggest extravagance or vanity. They claim that regular meetings of the "saints" should be held only in private homes. To support this position they call attention to the several references in the New Testament where the church is spoken of as meeting in a person’s home. Granted, there are such references, and no doubt the early church did make considerable use of private residences for church meetings where the apostle’s teaching, fellowship, the breaking of bread and prayers were engaged in. However, there is NO specific command or principle, expressed or implied, which maybe interpreted as FORBIDDING any other meeting place for the church. The question centers around whether or not the mere mention of a house for church meetings in the Scriptures MUST be taken as a pattern which cannot be departed from without violating the will of God. The "Two by Twos" insist that it DOES furnish such a pattern. Let us examine the Scriptures to see if this is truly the case.
In the early days of the church we find examples of Christians making use of the Temple in Jerusalem for prayer (Acts 3:1). In Acts 16:13-18 a careful study of the circumstances indicates that the "place of prayer" near the river had become a regular meeting place for the newly converted group of Christians which included Lydia and her household. Paul had been going to this place for "many days," no doubt to teach these new Christians and to pray with them.
After meeting with opposition in the synagogue of Ephesus (Acts 19) Paul separated the disciples and began meeting with them "in the school of Tyrannous." The use of this building evidently continued for two years as the meeting place for Christians. It was probably some type of school room or hall where classes were conducted by a man named Tyrannous.
There are a few instances where Christians met, as a church, in a location OTHER than a private house. From this we learn that there was no requirement of "home meetings" in New Testament days. While the advent of what we call "church houses" or "meeting houses" developed somewhat later, the New Testament contains neither command nor principle which would give Scriptural grounds for us opposing their construction and use.
Let us look at the church meeting in Acts 20:7-12. Was it a private house? The context does not indicate that it was. It does mention that it contained three floors, but we have no way of knowing, with certainty, whether it was a private residence or not. One could argue either way with equal force. We cannot draw conclusions from SILENCE of the Scriptures. The "Two by Twos" have taken the position this WAS a private house, not because of what the Bible says, but because of a preconceived idea they have settled upon.
Scholars are generally agreed that there is a possible allusion to the use of a special meeting place for the church in I Corinthians 11:17-34. This passage discusses the church’s assembly for the Lord’s Supper. The church in Corinth was abusing the practice of the Lord’s Supper by making it a time for partaking of a regular meal at the same time. This was causing division because those who were better off had plenty to eat while the poorer ones had little. Paul asks the question, "What, have ye not houses to eat and to drink in ? or despise ye the church of God, and put them to shame that have not?" (verse 22). The implication is that THIS meeting place was NOT a private house but some other type building large enough for accommodating a sizable congregation. This is further suggested by verse 34 which says, "If any man is hungry, let him eat at home…" While we cannot dogmatically assert the exact type of building this was, there are notable indications that it was not a private home.
Anyone even slightly acquainted with church history is fully aware of the fact that the early church met for worship in catacombs beneath the streets of Rome. This was necessitated by the sever persecution being waged against Christianity in those days. If the church had been required to meet in private homes during those trying times, obviously it would not have survived. The early church knew nothing of mandatory "private house meetings" as "Two by Twos" insist on today.
They have such strong feelings about this subject that some members have been known to misapply, grossly, various passages of Scripture in an effort to "prove" their point. The case of the Jewish leaders whom Jesus rebuked for loving "the chief seats in the synagogues" (Matthew 23:6) is used to "prove" that people who make use of church buildings today are Pharisees. They also assert that the "synagogue of Satan" mentioned in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 is a reference to the sin of meeting in a church building. The absurdity of such misuse of Scripture seems to know no bounds.
