Here is an excerpt from a sermon by John Bruce at Special meetings at Saginaw on July 4th, 1927......This is an example of what our parents and grandparents learned and followed:
"........."That song we were singing this morning "Lord speak to me that I may speak," it's good to wait upon God so we may answer correctly. Not doing things in our own way or the way that looks right to us.
I had a father of a boy in high school to ask me, "What shall I do about him?" He is just at the right age to be very conceited, everything of the world seems to appeal to him and they are leaving their stamp on him.
What shall I do? Would you let him finish his education or would you take him out of school?
I told this father that high school is NOT a fit place for a boy and if he were a boy of mine, I would rather see him facing the world without an education than facing the world with high mindedness and conceit and without God in his life. I would like to see him like those UNLEARNED fisherman, John, Peter, and James, unlearned in worldly ways."
Ron Thomke Quote:
Obedience = Wisdom
“No need for higher education, just simple obedience”. “I have more
understanding than all my teachers……. because I am obedient”.
- - -COMMENTS- - -
Pause for a moment and think about all of the old folks who were Born and Raised into this cult back in the 20's, 30's and 40's. And while you are thinking about them, don't forget the same ole' messages repeated, 'peated, and repeated to them,............."This "way" is the same the world over, "AND" "The "way" is the same, yesterday, today and forever!!!!!" Well, I guess I had better qualify this...............it depends <WHERE> you live on the globe!! There <REALLY ARE> many different <forms> and <flavors> of 2x2ism, you see.................in the 'way' that never changes and is the same the world over!
Now, with this in mind, "THINK" about these poor ole' folks when <THEY> were teenagers and they had stony faced old men workers sitting in their living rooms when they arrived home from their first day of high school. No words were minced, "You <will not> be going to high school again........period!!!
There was no negotiating!! The workers didn't believe in education, so, you didn't want any repercussions from these stony ole' men, soooooooo, no options, you followed <THEIR law!!>
The workers <said> "the way doesn't change", right folks???????? That's what they said for years and years and years!!! I heard it for years and years..........and they are <STILL> saying it..............nothing has changed!
Well, guess what, "Reverend" Lesley White <HAS> a college education...........oh, and I'm quite sure that he is "NOT" the only one!!
Interesting,................isn't it???
Many were forbidden educations but.................well, I guess the 'way' <DOES> change after all!
I feel so bad for these poor people of past decades that were trapped in this bondage.........in some cases, couldn't go to high school and for sure, could <NOT> get a college education.................but now,lo and behold, future workers <CAN> graduate from college.............now, I ask you..........."How is this an unchanging "way???"
Cheryle 9/99
I can remember a brother worker, stating that there was no need for secondary education (high school) Guess that's because he didn't have any. He's still in the work, - want to bet he hasn't still the same opinion?
Posted on July 13th, 2004
Hi _ _ _ _ _ _ and all,
I know what you are talking about when you mentioned the meetings in the home,.............the Sunday meeting was hell in our home.
One of my Sunday morning rituals was setting up all the chairs for the meetings,etc. But not only did we have to put up with that, it was always drummed into us, that us children were to be good examples to all others!!
Directly after the meetings, I was a bus boy and helped all the oldies into their respective vehicle to be driven home!
And about the education of a born and raised 2x2........in my case, from my very earliest memories, was of books being scrutinized by my mother before we were allowed to read them. This scrutinizing was so bad, that eventually, I never really bothered reading or bringing books home.
At one stage, I believe my mother tried to get one or more books taken off my older sister's school curriculum so she wouldn't have the opportunity to read it.
I wasn't present, but understand it was put to my school principal that due to circumstances, that I leave school at 14 but was denied, as it was illegal,............I left at 15, though.
Originally, I think I was being groomed to be one of the uneducated workers, but this, I will probably never find out for sure.
A younger sibling created a breakthrough..............through his own intelligence and desire to become higher educated, which opened more doors and a broader outlook of education to even the eldest sibling.
Unfortunately, I didn't take up the challenge.........that's why you cop all this drivel from me!!
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire."
- - William Butler Yeats
FWIW, _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posted to the Two-by-Two List on October 5, 2000
I would like to hear from anyone with an opinion or experiences concerning education and the "Truth."
My father was not allowed to attend high school because (and I quote as I remember him saying) he, "Might learn something that would take him away from the Truth." I'm not sure what they thought he would "learn" from a secular education (?).
When I was growing up I knew very, very few people who had a college education. I knew of some who went to college to become teachers or nurses--but they were very few. I only knew one who had a master's degree or doctorate and he was in education. I was raised and taught that IF I felt the need to go to college, nursing and education were the only acceptable professions. (They would provide me a worthy vocation while I was waiting to go into the Work, or if I had to leave the Work when I was older.)
I was not encouraged to attend college, but I was a very good student and I "won" a scholarship to attend a college away from my home. I was SO excited. I wanted to try my wings and see the way other people lived. I don't think education had a part in my leaving the Truth directly, although I know some of my teachers thought I was "wasting my life" being in the Way.
While I attended college in the 1960's I feel God protected me from a lot of the craziness that was going on at college at that time. I never bought into the political extremists, the liberal teachings, and I was never tempted by drugs!
I'm glad I had the opportunity to get an education!
6/97
I think that it is becoming more and more rare to find young professing people that do not attend college, whether they get their degree or not. This might differ widely from one part of the country to the next, and from rural to suburban areas. But, in my experience, having professed and gone to college in Montana, and now knowing many professing students in Texas, I would say it is true.
I also believe that there is still a pretty healthy bias against education in the minds of many, judging from sermons about the "wisdom of men." However, as the church continues to change so rapidly, these individuals will become as rare as non-college-goers.
Higher education was not something to be aspired to but, both my wife and I finished college with honors. Some of the smartest people I have known, professed! Professing people are serious about their religion, and this carries over into their work.
Some educated & accomplished friends I have know include:
- Inventor of the liquid crystal
- Directory of EXON R&D
- Aeronautic engineer (student of Von Braun), NASA expert
- Inventor of modern Tire making method
- Member of the world bank
- International expert to world governments on Nuclear Power
- Doctors, Dentist, & yes one Manhattan lawyer
I have the opinion that while some 2x2's are college educated, it tends to be a technical fields (ie medicine, engineering etc.) rather than in the humanities. Why? ? ? probably because an education in humanities requires more critical thought rather than mastering concepts. I attended a 'liberal arts' college and that experience gave me the mental tools to leave. On the other hand, had I gone to a state school and majored in say chemistry I might have never learned to think that way.
I also once met an older professing gentleman who strongly believed that anyone who did not work with their hands was sinning. Apparently he had once been told that by a worker.
I also think that women are highly discouraged from an education (unless of course its nursing!). When I left (at age 20) a fair number of the girls Igrew up with were already married. (5 out of the 8 girls I could think of) and Women in their mid to late twenties were headed for spinsterhood! To me that is oppression.
6/97
In the field where I was professing many, many of the young professing folks were attending university. Many of the workers have attended university as well. I don’t think education is discouraged in the "Truth" like it may have been at one time.
I do think that 2x2 women are looked favorably upon for staying home with the kids though. And if they do have an career it isn’t likely to be in the hair dressing field!
6/97
The denominational preachers are almost all educated, at least to some extent. Their knowledge of religion, history of the bible and of the history of Christianity as expressed through the various churches will exclude them from ever becoming members of an organization that:
- denies its own orgin
- denies that it owns property,
- denies its founding fathers
- denies that it has a name,
- denies its ministers the right of marriage and family,
- and is totally unwilling to face the dysfunction these denials bring about.......and then has the unmitigated gall to refer to themselves as the 'truth."
There are many very well educated folk in the laity, but education is denied workers. Information is channeled in to them from other older workers who guard and protect their judgments of the rest of the Christian world.
In my 14 years in the work, we talked a lot about love being the glue that holds the church together.
When one gains an objective outlook of what really goes on in the church, that love becomes very conditional.
- It is conditioned upon remaining in a state of ignorance regarding the issues.
- It is conditioned upon a requirement to be dishonest with yourself.
- It conditioned upon absolute conformity.
_ _ _ _ _ said it well the other day...........when he left the church or stopped going to meetings, no one bothered to inquire what was happening. We've heard that same experience talked about by most us who have left the love nest!
Name Withheld Posted on the Two-by-Two List on July 10, 2001
