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Subject of video: Compares Battered Women's Syndrome with Cult Spiritual Abuse--You will be surprised at the similarities in abuser tactics and effect on the victim.
(2 parts)

Spiritual Battery - Part I

Spiritual Battery - Part II

Women desire to be beautiful. However, many fail to realize that beauty begins on the inside and works its way out. Learn to let God transform feelings of inferiority, insecurity, and inadequacy into the unshakable confidence that comes with knowing who you are as a child of God. Discover that:

You are valuable and dearly loved.
You are a beautiful new creation.
You can leave the past in the past and find peace in the present.

Along with biblical wisdom and powerful stories of women remarkably changed from the inside out, you'll find an easy to use Bible study that provides the perfect finishing touches for a flawless faith lift. The ultimate makeover is full of promise and possibilities, new beginnings, peace and joy, and the hope of a beauty unique in the universe...the beauty of you!

"Take Care Of Yourself"

"Jesus: The Man Who Loved Women" - He Treasures, Esteems, and Delights in You!

Book By Bruce Marchiano

From: "Reflections," Chapter 20 by Sandi Gunther, pp163-167

On occasion, I had the Workers over for lunch. I was mentioning how “people of the world” are always getting us ladies mixed up because of our appearance.

I proceeded to tell a story of my experience in Hawaii. My professing mother had been in a wheelchair for a number of years and she wanted to take a trip to Hawaii. So she took me and a Two by Two nurse along to assist her. One day I left the Condo and went down to the local pineapple stand. I stated that I wanted to buy a pineapple.

Another man who was working out of the same stand asked me "Are you here in Hawai with your husband?"

I replied "No, I'm actually here with my invalid mother and a nurse. Why do you ask?"

"Well," he said, "I'm looking for couples who would be interested in the condominium time sharing plan."

"Well," I said, "That lets me out, my husband's not here." I purchased the pineapple and I left.

(At this point I should tell you that I weighed about 50 pounds more than the nurse. Her hair was: almost black and mine is reddish brown.)

A couple of days later, the nurse went to buy pineapple. Stepping up to the pineapple stand, she asked to buy a pineapple.

The other man said to her "Are you here in Hawaii with your husband?"

The pineapple man said, "No, no, you remember her. She's here with her invalid mother and a nurse."

The nurse said "Well, er—not exactly. I'm the nurse."

So, a few years later, I'm telling this story to the Workers and one of them said in a most gentle, soft manner, "Oh, yes, they would recognize the same spirit."

Much to my own surprise I blurted out "Spirit, nothin'—it was the bun!" There was no response from the Workers.

A few years later, I was re-telling this story to some elders in my city. They were siding in with the Workers that it was our spirit that those men in Hawaii saw. They were mocking me as I grew angrier, trying to get them to see that there can't be much spirit in saying "I'd like to buy a pineapple." I pressed them for several minutes to admit it was our appearance that they recognized. These elders continued mocking me with their verbal teasing and body language. Finally, in exasperation, I snapped my fingers and said, “If this group of people can be this ignorant on something that is so logical, I could be out of there right now,.” At that point, their demeanour changed, but they would not verbally agree that it was our appearance that confused the two men.

The worker (one was talking, the other one was quiet all the time) told me that we should do what is in the Bible. I told her that I asked the workers and older friends so many times where it says that I should wear a skirt and that wearing pants is not right for women. She said it is "NOT" in the Bible that pants for women are wrong, but then she asked me,

"Why should you wear pants if you can also wear a skirt?"

Post from the Two-by-Two List on April 21, 2001

Name Withheld

Dear _ _ _ _ _ _,

It seems the workers are globally famous for being inconsiderate about what is convenient. So many of them just "BARGE IN" and show up whether it is a convenient time or not.

I wondered if that was just true in the USA, but it appears that you all have workers that think they can show up with little or no notice. It sounds like you handled that whole encounter with the workers very well. The reason you are able to do that is because you have an understanding that the doctrine is screwed up and you realize WHERE it is screwed up. Once a person understands GRACE and embraces that, many other things start opening up so nicely. It is amazing how fas the Holy Spirit can "lead us into all truth."

FUNNY STORY ABOUT WORKERS WHO SHOWED UP WITHOUT CALLING:

My mom got caught in her slip once in her kitchen with two brother workers on the front porch knocking on a door that had a couple of small panes of glass in the top. They could see right into the living room area. There was no way she could get from the kitchen to anywhere else in the house without going past that door and them being able to see her in her state of undress. Finally, she snuck up beside the door where they could not see her and told them she was not dressed and would they take a ten-minute walk to give her an opportunity to get to her room (she wanted to get them off the porch so she could walk across the living room to get to the stairway.)

I thought your discussion about pants versus skirts was interesting, especially since the worker asked this question:

"Why should you wear pants if you can also wear a skirt?"

Well, I wonder why no one has never replied the way my professing sister expressed it to me one day.

She said, "Well, in winter, it really means that a woman is essentially naked from her feet tot her waist if she is wearing a dress or skirt. There is no way to really be warm in cold weather in a dress."

Don't you wish you had been able to tell them that? I think my professing sister has the right idea.

FUNNY STORY ABOUT AN ELDER'S WIFE IN A DRESS ON A BUSY 4-LANE STREET:

It is also not modest at times in a dress. I remember being in a car in North Carolina with some friends from my work and driving past a home where I went to Wednesday night meeting. The lady who lived there was a short, fat lady who wore stockings and she would roll the tops of them down around her knees and put on a fairly long dress. Well, on this particular day (as we drove by), she was bent over pulling weeds or planting something with her back to the street.

You would not believe how IMMODEST this sight was!!!

She was bent down so the front of her dress was against the ground in front but the back of her dress was up high. We could not ony see the tops of her stockings (rolled to the knee), but about 5 inches of her thigh above the knees too. I never let on to anyone in the car that I knew her because someone made a comment about how you could practically see her butt the way she was dressed working in her yard!!! Of course, she was a very pious 2x2 and would never consider owning a pair of pants event to be modest in her front yard.

No one (but me) ever seems to comment on the scripture of women wearing men's clothing except to interpret it that women are not to wear slacks. That is the 2x2 standard interpretation of that scripture. Pardon me, but I believe there were transvestites and people "cross-dressing" in scripture days, too. Something was going on for Paul to feel he needed to bring this issue up. As usual, he was writing to "believers," so there may have been some kinky folk in the group who needed some specific instruction about what was right and what was wrong. I think what it really meant was that men and women were not to be wearing the clothing that was suited to the other sex.

You never hear workers "preaching to the men" on the scripture. If they did, they would be saying, "Now, don't you men be putting on bras and panties and getting in touch with your feminine side!!!" I really think this verse has nothing to do with what the workers wind up making it be about. I think it was about people who were sexually deviant or people who were experimenting with feelings of insecurity about gender.

Does anyone else on here see that it could mean this or am I all alone here???

Actually, I have a feeling this scripture was written more for men since there seems to be a lot more of them that put on women's clothing than the other way around!!!

It's okay if you think I'm nuts!! Anyway, I think the "traditional" 2x2 interpretation of this scripture is just as screwed up as their interpretation of many other scriptures.

No wonder "SO" many people are "SO" confused!!!

Posted on the Two-by-Two List on April 21, 2001

Name Withheld

I was followed to my bedroom one night by an older sister worker when I was about 16.

She sat down on my bed and proceeded to tell me that my dresses were too short. That was back in the early 70's when all dresses were short. I told her that I didn't feel that my dresses were any shorter than the other professing girls in the area (there were only two) , but she replied that they were not born into the truth like I was and that I was the one that should be the example for them.

Even though this "worker talk" took place more than 30 years ago, I still remember it well.

It made me angry and certainly didn't do anything to make me more willing to drop the hems of my skirts. Of course, the "you should wear your hair up more often too" came with the lecture.

And it won't come as any surprise to any of the ex's that there wasn't any tenderness, understanding, or love shown during this "talk".

Posted on the TMB on November 16, 2007

I was always pushing the boundaries... therefore always getting talks.

The whole gospel meeting got a talk about women's splits in skirts.

Apparently they were too immodest! None that I had seen went above the knee (actually about 1-2 inches below!) but we all got the lecture.

As a child I had very thick, curly hair and my mother and I would both struggle to brush it and put it up. So my mum used to trim it quite often so it was "manageable". Well a lady worker pulled me up and said that it was too short. I should shave a portion of my hair at the scalp (in the middle so you couldn't see the shaved portion when your hair was up/in a bun) so that I could grow the rest of my hair longer!

No joking!

It just didn't make sense to me... I could shave part of my head where people couldn't see... to have the "appearance" right of growing my hair and looking right.

Posted on the TMB on November 16, 2007

I was told off frequently.

I guess the workers didn't like having the reflection of the sun shined in their faces when they were speaking on the platform. Berlin Raymond or Raymond Berlin - never did figure out his name - chewed me out a time or three for that and many other things.

I gave him reason to live.

Posted on the TMB on November 16, 2007

I had several. The most irksome was a talk on dressing fashionable.

Irksome because I am one of those people who never gives a second thought to my appearance. No fuss over clothes hair style etc I am a natural born frump. Rather than spend my time in front of a mirror primping I wanted to be out climbing trees and riding horses. Going to meeting I dressed like an 80 year old lady to please my parents and I never even thought to complain.

Background to the talk!!!

My parents had just had the priviledge of treating our 3 sister workers to a shopping spree at a very fashionable mall. They spent thousands of dollars on each one of them. This did not bother me at all because I had little interest in clothes. But I was aware this was special................my siblings and I never bought anything full price at a mall in our life. We shopped bargains and discounts for ourselves.

Well, after the shopping spree the most elder worker was unhappy with one of her purchases and my father had to take her to the mall to make an exchange.

As we drove, she had the gall to light into me about I hope you aren't one of those girls who is all into fashion blah blah blah. I was mystified, as I had never in my entire life owned anything as nice or expensive as the item she was exchanging. I still to this day would never spend as much money on an item of clothing. So who was hung up on fashion?

To add insult to injury. Later these sister workers were around for my birthday.

During the worker shopping spree nothing was bought for anyone but the workers but it was about a week before my birthday and in one great shop I saw a very inexpensive and cute sweater I would have dearly loved. I also saw a hideous but deeply discounted nightgown that was so hideously ugly we all made fun of it it was no where close to my size. Unless I wanted to fit 4 people in it.

Guess what my mother bought me for my birthday proudly telling me that the sister workers had helped her pick it out?

I still have that ugly nightgown even though I have never worn it. It reminds me of the whole incident. Good times. Good times.

Posted on the TMB on November 16, 2007

Well yes...several worker talks actually.

Topics:

my cat eye glasses
my bun was perched too high on the top of my head. Needed to be hung on the back of my head so it was not visible from a front view.
missing some Gospel mtgs because my new job required me to work Thurs. evenings.
approached to "take my temperature" about if I ever thought about going into the work.
hem length
"worldly" friends

Guess I flew under the radar for the really crucial sins and my rebellious nature.

At the time I considered these talks to be for the benefit of my spiritual welfare even tho I did feel resentment for the workers "parenting" efforts.
RA

Posted on the TMB on November 16, 2007

When I was an early teenager and finally able to sit alone with my best friend during convention (alone but we had to sit a few benches in front of her parents so they could observe us!) I was reprimanded by the younger sister worker in our field for whispering during the meetings. (the reprimand was likely in order, btw!)

The reason this reprimand stands out is because my friend, Jamie, was whispering as much as I yet I was the one that was singled-out & corrected. Jamie came from a 'blue blood' family and had a very out spoken, opinionated mother. I think she was a bit giddy with her new found power and saw me as easy prey.

Interestingly enough, this worker continues to have the reputation of being harsh and nit picky.

Posted on the TMB on November 16, 2007

I had a "talking to" about good luck charms.

I had a rabbit's foot key fob, and was taken aside and admonished.

My mother was chastised for having a gold watchband.

My sister was castigated for cutting "bangs" into her hair.

Trouble-makers, the lot of us!

Posted on the TMB on November 16, 2007

Speaking of wearing dresses and playing games,........It made me think of a horseshoe game in a park here when I was still in the 2x2's.

People were watching in amazement as these older ladies in dresses were pitching horseshoes...............the ladies had no idea of all the legs and garter belts that were showing, to lots of bystanders amusement.

I think we need to remember that Paul was talking about what was appropriate to wear at that time and place.

Not a matter of law!!

After all, the men were supposed to wear sandals, etc., and they would freeze now, the same way women do in dresses!!!! I always thought it strange that the men workers could look like bankers, when the women had to look different from other women.

I looked like a hippie when I was a kid, before the word hippie was even thought of, and looked like a freak in school. I was accepted anyway by some, laughed at by others. Good thing I loved school or I wouldn't have made it!!!

Anybody else had those kind of experiences?

Name Withheld

Posted On The Two-by-Two List on April 21, 2001

The fact that my relationship with God was based on my hairdo, makeup, and clothing was one thing that really pushed me away.

I also wanted my young daughter to see that I was the same person on Thursday at 2 as I was on Sunday at 10.

When I was beginning to "exit", I was told by a woman worker that she didn't need her hair snipped at, like I did. She didn't need to wear mascara or makeup (mine is almost non noticeable).

She didn't need it because God gave her confidence in her inner beauty.

I hated standing out in a crowd. (Still do). I didn't wish to look "holier than thou,“ especially in a group of several professing and non professing women. I believe the spirit should come from within. I want to be approachable and it seems very religious LOOKING people are not approachable. I've posted this before, but if we would get to know each other's hearts, by listening to each others prayers, that would be so much more Biblical than judging from a once over. A worker in a another country, who I emailed for a while, said he could tell by my photo that I have struggles.

Hmmmm....couldn't he tell that by my species??

I believe the focus continuing to be on outward appearance drives many women to leave or to be in the category of "weak saints" which is unfortunate. I also believe it causes lots of Sunday morning costumes...not the "real" person when it comes to hairdos. I always knew what to wear if I was going to encounter professing people. Even if my attire had been perfectly modest, but not "code" I knew I had to change into appropriate clothes. So silly, in hindsight.

After the birth of one of my kids, I was in Target in sweatpants, buying diapers. Mind you, I couldn't wear much else after a C-section. A family of professing people refused to talk to me! I am assuming it was my looks, because they were friendly at a convention a few months later. Weird.

Now, I enjoy wearing skirts/dresses to church and to work. I also wear my hair back or up sometimes………...it is all about my mood that day.

But, I don't have to. It is a huge difference.

Okay, that is my soapbox for today. I feel passionately about this subject and fought it for probably 25 years.

Name Withheld
Posted on April 11, 2008

When my husband and I started dating, he lived in an area where there were several elderly widows in the meeting.

Well-meaning they weren't.

When you walked through the doorway to come into meeting -- you got the head-to-toe -- twice or three-times over examination. AND -- you always came up wanting!

These were very self-righteous women and without saying a word -- you were aware that you hadn't passed muster in their little weekly examination!

Posted on the 2x2 List on July 13th, 2004

Name Withheld

When I was a child growing up in the 2x2 system, I was required to wear dresses or skirts. It didn't affect me much, because at that time, pants were not allowed at school for any girls. I was young enough that most girls didn't wear make-up yet and very little jewelry. I stopped attending meetings when I was 12, so I escaped the painful differences that teenage 2x2 girls would most definitely have experienced.

During the late 60's and early 70's the style for young ladies changed considerably. Blue jeans and mini skirts were IN. Buns were definitely NOT in vogue! I was a non-professing hippy. Bell-bottom blue jeans with ragged hemline, pop-tops that showed my bare tummy, mini skirts, ponchos, platform shoes or BARE FEET (of course), long hair and occasionally flowers painted on my cheeks and feet....all accessorized with strange jewelry, usually beads and buttons...even one necklace, with a compass pendant, I designed myself!

When I professed at 25, all that changed within a few days! I had not received revelation from God concerning outward appearance of women, but I had a great desire to please Him.

I was told that the sister workers were the example for professing women. I decided that since the workers were His ONLY TRUE MESSENGER in the earth, that they surely must know what was right and what would please Him. I felt quite certain they knew more about God than I did, since I had been such a rebel! So....I threw out every bit of make-up, jewelry and all the pants I owned.

Since we had very little money then, I purchased a couple dresses..................using one for meetings and one for at home. Gradually I increased my wardrobe. I noticed that some women wore more "worldly" dresses and skirts outside of meeting, but decided that if it wasn't good enough for meeting (read God), then it shouldn't be worn any time. So, I tried to dress just like the sister workers. Once, under temptation, I bought a pair of shoes that were not "worker style".

My husband's male cousin commented, "Sexy shoes!" I returned them the next day, and replaced them with a pair of brown heeled loafers. Even my mom was concerned for my rigid style. She bought me a skirt with a ruffle along the hem and gave it to me at convention..............hoping I would soften up a bit. I thought how sad it was that my own mom didn't understand what it truly meant to please God concerning attire. Anyway, I did wear the skirt, and liked it...but I only wore it to please my mother.

When young impressionable women take the counsel of the workers seriously, who is responsible? One might say (and several have) that I should have known better. I should have been thinking for myself. If I knew what I know now, I would most certainly agree.

However, I was taught that the workers were the mouthpiece of God....I believed it.

I was taught that disobedience to the workers was the very same as disobedience to God...I believed it.

I was taught that while Jesus was our example, the workers are the living example today, and that I couldn't go wrong if I did what they did...I believed it.

It seems to me that if one (or two) are going to preach these things, it should be understood that there will be some people who actually believe it! When it is preached that their authority is to be submitted to "without question", then who is responsible for error?

When one does not submit concerning outward appearance or any other thing, and is rebuked, what conclusion should be drawn? We are reminded that the workers are human too and prone to error...but we are still not allowed to question anything! So......is it so difficult to see the dilemma? Maybe, as _ _ _ _ and others have stated, it is different today.

If it is.....Hallelujah!!!!!! ....Because the days of old demonstrated "bondage" not unlike the ways of the Pharisees, and Jesus came to bring us "Freedom"!

Liberated in Christ.....Hallelujah! Posted on July 8th, 2004

To the 2x2 who commented that almost all female "friends" wear pants when appropriate and that includes all ages, I say, "What does "wearing pants when appropriate" mean? Is there a time when pants are not appropriate?"

Perhaps if you're invited to some specific function that requests on the invitation that the ladies wear only dresses. Today, pants are worn to funerals, weddings, worship services etc. Years ago when pants were a no no at some of these events, it may have seemed inappropriate to wear pants, but who was setting the standard? Who said? Who are the "appropriate police".

Jesus did not seem concerned about apparel.

Even that verse out of Deuteronomy has been taken out of context and misused by several denominations. Deuteronomy 22:5 Pants at one time may have been considered men's clothing...likely not when this verse was written though....and certainly now pants ARE women's clothing as well as men's.

If I wear pants, I am not wearing men's clothing, or even clothing that pertains to them. That verse was likely more directed to sexual deviances. Also, if one reads the whole chapter, there are many commands that no one would dream of accepting as the "standard" today. In verse 4 the command is to not ignore it if your brother's donkey or his ox has fallen on the road. You must help him. Sometimes we are encouraged by our spiritual leaders to help others, but how often is it taught as a command? How often have we heard from the platform to make tassels on the four corners of our garments? Have we been warned to not plant two kinds of seed in our gardens?

Not usually....BUT...we've all heard about verse 5, haven't we? Why is that?

When we are asked to follow the "law" to the "letter", I find it disturbing, especially when Jesus died to set me "free" in the "Spirit".

Posted to the 2x2 List on July 10th, 2004

Name Withheld

I was a teenage rebel. I wore my skirts so short that several times I was "BANNED" from waiting tables because I did not meet the standards. Western _ _ _ _ _ was always known for being more liberal in their dress code than the east.

In _ _ _ _, my girlfriend and I went to _ _ _ _ _ _ on a holiday and we wore lemon yellow and orange dresses with V necks and short sleeves and hems two inches above the knee. AND, heaven forbid - - white sling back high heeled shoes - - I even owned white platform sandals.

Hattie Zwicker, a visiting workers from the Maritimes was at the first Sunday Morning Meeting we were at. She "STILL" wore black seamed stockings. At the end of the meeting, she very vocally reprimanded us for our "APPEARANCE." She did this without even getting up and coming over to us. We were told in no uncertain terms that we were not to take part in meeting again, much less take part of the bread and wine dressed so scandalously.

She informed us collar bones are to be covered, as are elbows, knees, heels and toes.............and white shoes are never to be worn and that the colors were unbecoming regardless of the style.

We bluntly defied her and continued taking part in meetings and willfully wearing clothes that were not only bold colored but also loudly patterned.

Posted on the 2x2 List on January 10, 2001

Name Withheld

I found, when raising my children, that often they would choose to do what pleased me, when given the freedom to do so. But, when they had no choice, they often rebelled...or obeyed with resentment. Sometimes they obeyed, because they believed what I told them about a given situation. Sometimes I was right, and sometimes I was wrong. I'm so glad my children search for themselves. They make discoveries that I learn from.

I believed the workers' frequent quotes from Deut. 22:5. They were wrong about that one. I'm glad that I searched for myself.

Posted July 11th, 2004

Name Withheld

I doubt that I will ever feel "normal"..............because I am not sure what that feels like. I feel like a misfit in many situations that I am in. I attempt to be like others on the outside sometimes, but I never feel terribly comfortable inside. It sounds so sick!! Talk about conforming!!! Something I learned SO WELL!

I played my role so very well for so many years. If I wrote my story, it would be volumes long.....I've faced so much pain in the last few years.

Posted February 11, 1998

I recall the utter shame I felt when workers would pull me or a group of us girls together, aside from all the others, and tell us our dresses were too short. (this was in the late 60's - early 70's when everyone wore miniskirts -- and we surely "WERE NOT" wearing miniskirts!) I truly felt like the woman who committed adultery in the New Testament as she stood before her accusers who wanted to stone her. I feel those kinds of experiences when I was a young teen have made it difficult for me to accept "constructive criticism" all my life. I felt so ashamed, so guilty, so shamed, that I could hardly listen to what was even said.

I could only concentrate on my wrong and had difficulty trying to rise above that. For others on the list who were taken aside by the workers and corrected -- did you feel you could pray to God immediately?? I felt so ashamed that I found it very difficult to pray for quite awhile after one of these episodes -- yet that should have been the one place I could have gone for comfort!!

Posted on February 3rd, 1998

Can one recognize a professing woman in the street? Yes!! Can one recognize a
professing man in the street? No!! Of course, it depends on how women dress, but if they dress as "workers like to see," they stand out clearly!!!

I have a little story:

Some years ago, a brother worker preached from the platform at convention that women should wear skirts when working, as well as everywhere they go.

Blah, blah, blah..............I was soooooooooooooooooo angry!!!

I don't know if it was the same year... but one of the young professing friends lost his driver's license for a few months "because he had gone the wrong direction around a roundabout". Why did he do that? Because he had had "a drink too much" and no worker talked about that. I don't mind if people sometimes have a bit too much to drink (it happens to me as well) but... it's not logical............. he talks about women wearing skirts but not about young boys driving in a drunk way.

I just want to say that for women today, it's not easy. I believe in equal rights for both men and women. That's what I'm fighting for at the moment... without results.

Thank You
Name Withheld
Posted September 1st, 2004

My son recently attended a 2x2 'camping trip' to a island of the north coast. He was asked by other visitors why all the girls were wearing skirts, even when playing games and sports like tip rugby or hiking. Needless to say he wasn't able to give a valid answer.

Posted July 11th, 2004

Oh, _ _ _ _ give us all a break!!

What in the world does a long skirt have do to with a moral and chaste fellowship? There can be all sorts of things hidden beneath those long skirts --------- no pun intended!! I have seen women who looked the part of professing in fact look at the sister workers in their chaste attire. I've seen some pretty nasty attitudes, words and heard of some pretty immoral things happening from those very chaste looking ladies!! Again -- you can cleanse the outside of the cup but if there is bacteria growing inside it's just a matter of time until you get sick or die.

Your attitude is the very thing that riles we females -- but then isn't that what you are trying to accomplish? Of course, how many of you men notice an attractive female who isn't dressed so chastely when they walk by? You know all that about an evil thought being just as bad as an evil deed because the intent is there.

FWIW --

Posted on July 8th, 2004

When I was still professing, I overheard a couple of women discussing why another woman had "lost out" and they said it was because she wanted to cut her hair and wear jewelry. It may seem to some that the former 2x2 women are being shallow to get so hung up on the "standard of outward appearance." I don't know about you, but in every single young people's meeting I was in during the 70s and 80s, spiritual things were not discussed. In every case it was appearance and whether you could date outsiders. In my experience in BC during that period, young people were not taught spiritual matters of substance.

We were taught about the expectations for appearance.
Posted on July 9th, 2004

I need to know the general standard regarding what unit of measurement God
is using.

Regarding the length of my skirts, it appears that I am in big trouble. In my earlier day's apparently my skirts had to be so many inches and-or feet off the floor. Now it would have to be so many centimeters and meters off the floor, in some countries including Canada. Maybe this has to do with where you are born??? There is a difference of approximately three inches between meters and yards. I wonder if my problem could be that I was stuck on inches instead of centimeters and yards instead of meters. Now, if
God's standards are two yards from my waist to the hem, and here all the time it was to be two meters, well then, without question my skirts were two short, by someone's standard.

Where this gets even more stressful and complicated, God would have to give us a different measurement according to our height.

M_ _ _ _, maybe you would know if God has a computer and approximately how many
women are in this world. He has to have a daily log somehow, to check whether we are on the inside looking out or the outside looking in. That would make a substantial difference as to what was allowed and whether we were loosing out or in.

When we kick the bucket, It must be very hard for God to check all these skirt lengths, as to our position in the great beyond. Now, add the complication of us missing the standard by just being a few centimeters short, or too long of the standard.

I wonder if it would be possible for someone with unconditional love to rush to the morgue when people croak, and make sure they are dressed and scrubbed and have on the cloaks of moral standards “BEFORE” God sees them??? Then, of course, there is the shade of our stockings, and how much of our skin is showing at the top of our skirt.

WOW, what a job!!

I guess there must be some kind of a dye detector in heaven, to see if our hair is natural or not, and then of course some kind of an apparatus as to what the standard approved length of our hair is. Does God allow perms???

Now, the color of our skin and cheeks and eye lids has to be confirmed. Is it possible to be accurate when people are born black?

What about the men?? Certain length of their trousers, hair, (what about hair on their chest) do they use Grecian formula? Do they wear boxer shorts, are they colored or plain, or is the acceptable standard black? Are there T-shirts under their shirts and what are God's standards for the color of men's shirts and ties ?

Because it has been brought to our attention that the length of our skirts are firmly connected to our moral standards, I think someone better check with God on this very important issue at once. Maybe an acceptable standard could be typed up and issued with Bible studies and Convention dates, complete with measurement conversions.

I am almost positive that the sister workers who have had babies, do not have a clue that they would not have became pregnant if they had adjusted the length of their skirts.

The utter insanity is that most of us on this list believed this total B.S. for many years. Those that are caught, wearing anything less than the standard simply have to be executed.

Love, Marge

Posted on July 9th, 2004

Hi _ _ _ _:

I very much appreciated your letter & I can relate totally to it.

I recall in my early 20s, I had been married a few years and I was told my the head worker that he was so embarrassed to have been in a Sunday morning meeting with me. My skirt was too short and it had offended him. As I mentioned before -- there were few places we professing ladies did fit. Our skirts were too short for meeting yet with those we worked with or attended school with -- the length made them look like something our grandmothers would wear.

I remember distinctly the skirt I was wearing. It was red (maybe the color was part of the problem) and it was very full at the bottom -- so it wasn't like it hiked up when I sat down. Anyway -- just like you -- I felt demoralized and stupid. No matter what you did -- it was never good enough. I was in Sunday morning meeting, I took part, I took the bread & wine -- but my skirt was too short and I embarrassed this worker.

Imagine my surprise when 15-20 yrs. later I heard a story from a trusted professing person, that during a bathroom trip at convention, he passed through the dining tent. There, this head worker and a sister worker were 'heating things up" but it wasn't food! Who would have thought? I must admit I was shocked out of my mind! This was the kind of thing that happened with teenagers at convention ............but my goodness right there in the cook tent!

Oh yeah, -- one must conclude that the sister worker probably brought it on by the short length of her dress..........wait a minute......
her dress WASN'T short!! What could have initiated such a tryst? Oh yeah -- she probably made the first move and it offended him so much that he acted on it right away!!

Like you, _ _ _ _, I blamed myself for quite awhile over this incident and the words he spoke stung for a long, long time. Even now so many years later, I remember the shame and embarrassment I felt -- and that was the intention there!!

FWIW,

Posted on July 9th, 2004

When I grew up we were told that "women were not to dress in men's clothing".

Shortly after I left home, one young woman I knew was "shocked" when I showed up wearing pants, and quoted that to me. At that time, most women's pants all had zippers on the side. I said to her "Well, _ _ _, next time you see me I'll have a pair with a fly in the front!". I did too. Now I think it must be hard for professing women to find pants that don't have a fly in the front.

I must admit that I had a professing lady (I truly liked and admired her) clean my house for a while. She showed up in jeans, which surprised me, but I assumed she would only wear pants to do that type of work. I have never seen a professing lady in pants otherwise though.

Once I saw what I assumed was a professing family on the cross country ski hill. The teen aged daughters wore pants, but the mother was out there skiing in a dress! I'm sure any tumble would not have looked very modest! Someone on this list (or perhaps in one of the books I read) was saying that she was told not to go into the police force because she would have to wear pants.

It looks like some things have changed anyway. Where else besides hockey games would a woman wear pants? Would they ever wear them to a pot luck supper, a gathering at the picnic grounds, shopping?

Posted July 11th, 2004

B_ _ _ _ said, "It was much more difficult for me to "face" the kids at school when I was almost continuously being asked why I didn't wear pants, didn't cut my hair, couldn't go to dances, and didn't have a TV. Talk about drawing MORE attention to yourself! We were indeed queer looking and my "tribulations" were never about being "Christians" rather they were about how weird you looked and acted. It was enough that I was always considered a goody two shoes but to be totally humiliated all the time about the way you looked too, didn't do very much for a young girl's self-esteem."

This is the typical experience of a child growing up in the 2x2. Very traumatic, for no good reason. _ _ _ _ _, I respect that you uphold what you believe to be reasonable. We raised our kids with much the same attitude. Things that we, as parents, could make no sense of we did not impose upon our children. So, our three girls wore jeans and their hair down at school and our son pursued his love for sports.

After we resigned from 'truth' we heard, through the grapevine, that our girls were deemed by certain 2x2's as being worldly, kinda living on the fringe, you know!

Its almost unforgivable though, the agony that girls, especially, must endure in order to secure their supposed hope of redemption. Not that my son didn't have his times of enduring sympathetic and downcast eyes for excelling at track and field.

While professing, it grieved me that we had to talk about his accomplishments with hushed breath, as if these things were of the world, the flesh, and the devil and had no part in a child of God. It had the affect of suppressing the human spirit and replacing it with an inordinate fear of meaningless legalities.

Getting hair up in buns and wearing of the appropriate attire is still a sign of good spiritual progress in ladies where we live.

Regards, _ _ _ _ _

Posted on July 13th, 2004

Link: "What is a Cult?"

I grew up on a dairy farm in northern Wisconsin and we had a lot of woods, so every spring before the snow was gone we would go to the woods to tap the maple trees and cook around 300 gallons of maple syrup. Now my Mom had never learned to drive a car so after the garden was planted in May, she asked me to drive her to Evanston IL. about 230 miles away to visit her sister on the north side of Chicago. Now this was in 1948 and my Mom was 50 years old, and professed in 1922 and she had been wearing black
stockings for 28 years.

Before we left, Mom told me to load up the trunk with a lot of jars and cans of maple syrup, so while we are down there we will go into the suburbs and go door-to-door selling maple syrup to pay for our trip. Now my aunt Esther had never professed and we didn't get to see her very often, so when we arrived and went into the house my aunt said to my Mom, Oh Lucy you are still wearing those black stockings, you know every time I see the
black crows flying in the backyard I am always reminded of you still walking around in those black stockings. Now my aunt Esther was a very jolly happy person and my Mom and I quickly put the embarrassing black crow story behind us.

So we visited a few days and Mom told my aunt that we were going to spend about three days going door-to-door selling maple syrup, and my aunt said, drive north one mile from here, it is a more wealthy suburb.

Now as I was driving along I looked over to Mom and I noticed that she was taking off her black stockings and I said Mom what are you doing that for? So Mom reached into her big black purse and pulled out a package and in it was a pair of light tan stockings and she put them on. Now I became very frightened and I said Mom if the workers and friends find out about this we will get kicked out of the truth and we will both go to a lost eternity. I will tell you why I'm doing this Mom said to me, we each have our large canvas shopping bag to carry the syrup and you will be walking up one side of the street and I will be walking up on the other side and how would I look, with a black hat on my head to cover up my bun, my dark blue dress and black stockings from my knees down to my big black shoes, and they see me coming up to their door, they will think it's the bag lady coming and they're not going to answer the door bell, and they might even call the police because this is a wealthy neighborhood. Now with these tan stockings on at least I look halfway presentable.

Well, we got through the day all right and now I was driving back to my aunt's house and Mom started taking off the tan stockings in the car and she said, I don't dare let my sister see me in these tan stockings, so I have to put these black ones on again. Now don't drive so fast as we are almost there she said, and she was having trouble with the first stocking with hooks or snaps not working right and finally she got one black stocking on. By this time we were getting near to my aunt's house and Mom said stop right here and give me time to put the other black one on. I said Mom you can stay in the car and change that one right out there in front of her house, no, Mom said she could be right out in the front yard and come over to the car and open the door to help me out of the car and there I am standing with one black stocking on and one tan stocking on and I would never hear the end of that from her. So I stopped where we were and she put the other one on.

Now the next morning after breakfast we went out again to sell maple syrup, so in the car along the way off came the black and on went the tan and we sold maple syrup all day and nobody called the police and going back to my aunts house the procedure was reversed. The third day we went out again and the same thing was done again, and that day was the end of our business venture.

Now after several days we were back in the car and on our way home again and Mom said to me let's keep this a secret, don't tell anybody, because if this gets back to the workers it will be like we sing in that hymn "only remembered by what we have done."

Now about two years later a great change was sweeping over the country, women and girls were telling other women and girls that you don't have to wear the black stockings anymore get rid of them and put on the tan. Now the next Sunday after meeting a lady, mom's age came up to us and said to Mom, did you know we don't have to wear the black stockings anymore? Mom asked her, did the workers make an announcement that it's okay now? No she said it seems like the workers don't have anything to say about it, its out of their hands, people are changing all over the country. Now she said to Mom are you going to change into the tan too? Well my Mom looked at me and then said to her I've already got a pair, I've had them for two years and I've been praying for this to happen.

Well, this lady said to Mom you know its going to seem so strange walking around town with tan stockings on and the people we know are all going to stare at us. Mom said let them stare I couldn't be happier.

- Tom S.

When I was still professing, I overheard a couple of women discussing why another woman had "lost out" and they said it was because she wanted to cut her hair and wear jewelry. It may seem to some that the former 2x2 women are being shallow to get so hung up on the "standard of outward appearance." I don't know about you, but in every single young people's meeting I was in during the 70s and 80s, spiritual things were not discussed. In every case it was appearance and whether you could date outsiders. In my experience in BC during that period, young people were not taught spiritual matters of substance.

We were taught about the expectations for appearance.

Posted to the 2x2 List on July 9th, 2004

Name Withheld

Worker Ken Pagington, Durban, September 22, 1996: "Another sign of Herod's leaven is fashion. Fashions change and hardly ever last longer than some years. There is no change of standard in GOD's kingdom; modesty and moderation. Obviously one would dress differently on the beach but one can always stay modes. In Madagascar, the first lady who ever professed was my language teacher. When Lucie professed her dresses were ok but not what we liked. One day I got a picture form her to send to friends. It was an old picture and I got a felt tip pen, lowered the dress and asked a photographer if its ok to take a new photo of the picture. I showed Lucie and within two weeks all her dresses were long."

Why the truthers can't see that a relationship with God has nothing to do with appearance is beyond me.

It is this HAUGHTINESS that makes the 2x2's so repulsive to me. It is this attitude, which is so FAKE, that makes it so difficult for me to speak the truth in love!! Whenever problems arose, they would be swept under the carpet at ALL costs in order to maintain this appearance of serenity, humility, and calmness. << **You mentioned "It is this HAUGHTINESS that makes the 2x2's so repulsive to me." I feel a bit like that now, too, and I do understand what you mean. But you and I have "been there" and know what is going on with them. Outsiders don't understand that. They see calm, serene, etc. FOR THE MOST PART. **

I certainly never felt proud of how different I looked! .........hmmmmm, come to think of it I do recall having a "higher than thou" feeling at least once. I was attending an indoor horse show. Anyway there were a few thousand people in attendance. I scanned the audience and could NOT find one other female in a skirt or dress! YES, that day I DID feel proud. Proud that "I could show them!!!" I was dressed like a lady! The way a LADY should dress! I doubt if anyone noticed unless it was to wonder why on earth a female would wear a dress to such a function! But that was likely one of the only times I felt proud of my appearance. And even then I wonder if I wasn't really taking on the proud attitude so as to comfort myself for looking so different. Sort of "sour grapes" you know.

Professing women & women workers didn't wear short sleeves some years ago, here in the midwest white shoes were a no-no until a decade or two ago. Still sister workers don't wear white shoes here--other places? Things that are totally "NOT TO BE DONE" here (clothing-wise) may fly in other parts of the US or world.

A proper outward appearance was needed so one could blend with the other terrified, brain-washed children of the "Truth."

The more I modeled my appearance and behavior after the workers the more pride I felt; the more spiritual I felt.

Professing women in the 'early days' used to have to wear black stockings. As a result in some areas the sect was nick-named THE BLACK STOCK and in some places, people called them "Black Socks" because they didn't know what else to call them!!!